the plan

iluvgymnastics

New member
Hi everyone,
let me know what you think.

Currently I weigh about 145 pounds, and am 5'6". I eat usually between 1500 an 1700 calories a day. I try to run/walk until 200 calories on the treadmill or elliptical 6 days a week, and do about 60 various sit-ups and 20 pushups.

What do I need to change to tone up, and maybe lose a little bit of weight?
 
More resistance training.
 
Steve already grabbed the answer I was going to throw out, but I would like to further specify what sort of resistance training. What I normally recommend adding to their regular cardio for women looking to do what you are looking to do is a simple exercise circuit.

Most gyms will have an area readily set up for this purpose (I know three different Golds out here in NC do, and I've seen them set up in different parts of the country). If they don't, then the dumbbell rack (where the big hairy people who grunt a lot when they lift are) should provide you with a great area for it.
 
If going to the gym is out of the question, I would suggest Isometrics. While I am not personally a big fan of isometrics, I had friends that have experienced success with it.

If you don't feel like reading up on isometrics, but you have a partner who is willing to work with you, all you need is a towel (my favorite muscle building tool) for manual resistance exercises for the muscles that aren't easy to hit with your own bodyweight. If you do have someone to work with you, I can post a couple of workouts I've given friends while they were on the road.

Just two ideas for you.
 
Steve already grabbed the answer I was going to throw out, but I would like to further specify what sort of resistance training. What I normally recommend adding to their regular cardio for women looking to do what you are looking to do is a simple exercise circuit.

Most gyms will have an area readily set up for this purpose (I know three different Golds out here in NC do, and I've seen them set up in different parts of the country). If they don't, then the dumbbell rack (where the big hairy people who grunt a lot when they lift are) should provide you with a great area for it.

Why do you recommend circuit training for someone in her shoes?
 
For the same reason I would recommend circuit training to wrestlers over a regular meathead style of lifting. Instead of taking time to rest inbetween sets, and get a drink of water, and chat with your friend, you keep their heart rate elevated, and keep the person going through constant exercise. It is just a standard I use when someone tells me that they want to focus on toning over adding mass. It is easy to get a person a set of lifts to burn through, and it is easy to keep them focused for the 20-30 minutes it takes to do the workout, and if done properly, you can get an amazing workout in.

While this can also be attained by saying "take your reps a little higher, and superset as much as you can", I figured it would be much easier for her to google and look it up, and read about it, then come back here with questions if I just said "Circuit training".
 
For the same reason I would recommend circuit training to wrestlers over a regular meathead style of lifting. Instead of taking time to rest inbetween sets, and get a drink of water, and chat with your friend, you keep their heart rate elevated, and keep the person going through constant exercise. It is just a standard I use when someone tells me that they want to focus on toning over adding mass. It is easy to get a person a set of lifts to burn through, and it is easy to keep them focused for the 20-30 minutes it takes to do the workout, and if done properly, you can get an amazing workout in.

While this can also be attained by saying "take your reps a little higher, and superset as much as you can", I figured it would be much easier for her to google and look it up, and read about it, then come back here with questions if I just said "Circuit training".

Firstly, who said anything about meathead style of lifting? Actually, please define meathead lifting in your book.

Meh, I'm just not a fan of circuit-esque styles of training for relatively lean individuals. When you are dealing with individuals carrying a lot of excess fat... circuit training can be a real great tool. When you are fat though, losing muscle isn't as much a concern and expending excess energy is a huge goal.... so styles of lifting promoting more 'movement' in less time is great.

However, when dealing with someone who isn't real fat.... resistance training serves a more important function in my book, and that's muscle maintenance. And maintenance is best served by heavy, relative to your strength, lifting. I'd rather let cardio and diet contribute to the energy expenditure side of things.

IME, which you can take for what it's worth, most women end up irritated as all hell b/c their opinion of 'toning' involves a big caloric deficit and a lot of pumping in toning, high rep, fast paced nonsense in the weight room. The end result is weight lost, fat, including muscle. And they don't 'nail' that toned image they've been striving for.

Just my two cents.
 
(Sorry to clog up the thread with this discussion, but for some reason the site won't let me PM)

I have personally integrated circuit training into both cutting cycles as well as building cycles in my lifting career. If you mistake them as something that is just for the overweight person not concerned with losing muscle mass, then you need to take another peek at them. Next time you go to do legs, shoot me a message or email, and I'll throw you a leg circuit that you can do (The same one I integrated into my workouts when I peaked at 600 by 6 on squats).

As far as "Meathead Style", I am talking about the person that we all know from the gym. He is the guy that knows everyone, because he takes 7-10 minutes between each set, and he takes that time and walks around and talks to people. He is probably a screamer. I don't mind taking your time to make sure you get a good workout on each of your individual muscles, but examples like the above are what I define as a "Meathead Style". Yes, you might be able to squeak out that 11th rep by waiting 10 minutes where you would have needed a spot to get it if you had only waited a minute to go again.

Again, I was working with what I can work with. If she was a friend of mine, and was going to the gym with me, then I would put her through a high intensity, low rest workout, if not a true circuit. However, she is a person on the internet that I don't know, so I threw out the best I had. I was trying to expound on the idea of "resistance training" so she didn't go and waste an hour and a half of her day working a single muscle group because that is how she heard it is done / someone taught her that way, when a 30 minute circuit is more oriented on what she says her goal is.
 
(Sorry to clog up the thread with this discussion, but for some reason the site won't let me PM)

Meh, a thread is a thread and if educational stuff is being discussed I think all is good.

I have personally integrated circuit training into both cutting cycles as well as building cycles in my lifting career.

As have I.

But recommending solely circuit-esque styles of training is flawed IMO for the aforementioned reasons.

If you mistake them as something that is just for the overweight person not concerned with losing muscle mass, then you need to take another peek at them.

Certainly not mistaken.

There are no absolutes and I'm certainly not one to think in black/white terms.

All forms of training hold a place and time.

Next time you go to do legs, shoot me a message or email, and I'll throw you a leg circuit that you can do (The same one I integrated into my workouts when I peaked at 600 by 6 on squats).

I'd certainly take a look at it.

However, are you suggesting that circuit training is the optimal approach to improve strength?

Seems counter-intuitive if you ask me.

As far as "Meathead Style", I am talking about the person that we all know from the gym. He is the guy that knows everyone, because he takes 7-10 minutes between each set, and he takes that time and walks around and talks to people. He is probably a screamer. I don't mind taking your time to make sure you get a good workout on each of your individual muscles, but examples like the above are what I define as a "Meathead Style". Yes, you might be able to squeak out that 11th rep by waiting 10 minutes where you would have needed a spot to get it if you had only waited a minute to go again.

Well I have my own definition of meathead style of lifting. Long breaks between sets really doesn't fit in my definition. There are plenty of instances when long breaks are warranted for a given goal and style of training.

Again, I was working with what I can work with. If she was a friend of mine, and was going to the gym with me, then I would put her through a high intensity, low rest workout, if not a true circuit. However, she is a person on the internet that I don't know, so I threw out the best I had. I was trying to expound on the idea of "resistance training" so she didn't go and waste an hour and a half of her day working a single muscle group because that is how she heard it is done / someone taught her that way, when a 30 minute circuit is more oriented on what she says her goal is.

This is black and white thinking to me. And please hear me, I'm certainly not arguing with you. I am enjoying this conversation.

But circuit training vs. single body part split training is extreme ends of a spectrum.

I certainly would never suggest spending an entire workout blasting a bodypart. Well, I shouldn't say "never." But 99/100 times I wouldn't.
 
And please hear me, I'm certainly not arguing with you. I am enjoying this conversation.

Excellent. I was afraid I was coming to a new website, and thinking different thoughts than the resident expert, and I could hear the footsteps of the mob ready to lynch me.

Now to the meat:
However, are you suggesting that circuit training is the optimal approach to improve strength?
If I got my squats to where I got them to using only circuit training, I would most likely qualify for the world's most gritty/tough individual, and you'd see my face in guiness as such.

Obviously Circuit training alone is not the optimal way to improve strength. Aside from talking about on-weight women trying to tone (A different discussion imho), it certainly has its place in increasing your gains. I generally try to do a circuit every 6-8 weeks. Back when I was pushing my legs hard, I'd dedicate a lifting day to a leg circuit. Maybe I wouldn't necessarily see immediate numerical gains from doing that as opposed to taking the time to crank out some serious deadlifts on the smith, or get in some good squatting along with the rest of a regular leg workout. But I can tell you for sure that after 2 months of lifting for size / numbers, that those circuits toughened the hell out of my legs.

Well I have my own definition of meathead style of lifting. Long breaks between sets really doesn't fit in my definition. There are plenty of instances when long breaks are warranted for a given goal and style of training.

Again, long breaks inbetween sets was not the sole qualifier. I was just giving you the example that came to my mind (there are a couple of those at my gym, so that was fresh on my mind).

But circuit training vs. single body part split training is extreme ends of a spectrum.

I completely agree with this. However, As we don't know how a person would take the advice, and how closely they would adhere to it, I would rather they "shade" their approach towards the short-rest full body style workout to achieve her desired goal rather than push towards the opposite end of the spectrum.
 
Excellent. I was afraid I was coming to a new website, and thinking different thoughts than the resident expert, and I could hear the footsteps of the mob ready to lynch me.

Hahaha, hell no.

1. I don't consider myself an expert.

2. Only morons get lynched around here. And even then, I'd barely call it lynching. This place is tame.

If I got my squats to where I got them to using only circuit training, I would most likely qualify for the world's most gritty/tough individual, and you'd see my face in guiness as such.

Phew, ok. I was worried b/c some moron 'expert' came in here a few months back claiming lighter weight, higher volume training is optimal for increasing absolute strength.

Obviously Circuit training alone is not the optimal way to improve strength. Aside from talking about on-weight women trying to tone (A different discussion imho), it certainly has its place in increasing your gains. I generally try to do a circuit every 6-8 weeks. Back when I was pushing my legs hard, I'd dedicate a lifting day to a leg circuit. Maybe I wouldn't necessarily see immediate numerical gains from doing that as opposed to taking the time to crank out some serious deadlifts on the smith, or get in some good squatting along with the rest of a regular leg workout. But I can tell you for sure that after 2 months of lifting for size / numbers, that those circuits toughened the hell out of my legs.

From my educated perspective on the subject of stress and adaptation, this would be my take on what you are saying....

You lifted hard and heavy using the big lifts: Squats, deads, etc.

You pushed the weight up and after some time, you switched the protocol to a circuit style of training.

IMO, that's good. Back off periods are excellent. However, it wasn't the circuit that 'toughened the hell out of your legs.' It was simply the reduction in tension/intensity, which in turn, allowed for some fatigue dissipation. I've actually used circuits in this context with my own training.

You seem to be putting yourself out there as a trainer. That said, I'm assuming you are familiar with single vs. dual factor theories on training. Or better yet Selye's General Adaptation Syndrome to stress? If you understand these concepts, you understand what I'm saying.

If you don't understand these concepts, I'd gladly go into more detail.

Again, long breaks inbetween sets was not the sole qualifier. I was just giving you the example that came to my mind (there are a couple of those at my gym, so that was fresh on my mind).

Here's an excellent quote that I love wrt to retarded body part split training you see in most routines today:

"What a lot of strength athletes don't understand is that bodybuilding is totally different. A whole different type of hypertophy that requires vastly different exotic training methods that rarely get results and generally require anabolics to break 200lbs. Let me tell you all that building significant muscle mass on a Yoda-esque program using exotic rep schemes on cables and machines, days of dedicated biceps training, with an overbearing focus on trace mineral balance and insufficient caloric intake makes it really hard to put on muscle. These guys have to have it all together to show any appreciable gains.

Guys that eat and are able to rely on basic programs to increase their weights in squats, pulls, and presses doing basic exercises that strengthen the body and force it to adapt with increased muscle have it easy. They will never know what it's like to fight through moronic inefficiency to needlessly differentiate your training and alleviate worry that when you eventually do start gaining weight someday, it will be in perfect symmetry and proportion - all at 2lbs a year."

Ha! That's good shit.

I completely agree with this. However, As we don't know how a person would take the advice, and how closely they would adhere to it, I would rather they "shade" their approach towards the short-rest full body style workout to achieve her desired goal rather than push towards the opposite end of the spectrum.

Yea, I think you are still assuming I'm far on the one side of the spectrum.

Spectrum being:

Circuit training<-------------------------------------------->Max Effort Training

I'm not a fan of blanket recommendations and you'll rarely if ever see me spew any. With that in mind though.... pretty much anytime you see me 'instructing' a woman who is not significantly overweight with a goal of 'toning' my advice will be based around a core strength component. Think 4-8 reps on the major lifts. Certainly some fluff, energy expensive work can be thrown around this. But without this core of strength work (keeping in mind we are dealing with a relatively lean female) muscle loss is a very real possibility while dieting.

You can certainly see the number on the scale drop with out this core component. But IME, you won't get the most 'bang for your buck' in terms of physique and body recomposition.
 
You seem to be putting yourself out there as a trainer.

The one lesson I've learned in life is to never qualify yourself fully. If you're a certified scuba instructor going on a pleasure dive, you give the current divemaster your regular open-water diving card, not your instructor's license.

I would much rather be known as an "enthusiast".

I'm assuming you are familiar with single vs. dual factor theories on training.

I actually personally go on a 3day on 1 day off cycle using the body part split that I had good results with in college. It is not a workout that I would necessarily recommend to others, and not necessarily the one that I would use given optimal situations, but as the only time I have free to lift during the day is whenever I choose to take my lunch, I (imperfectly) split my body into a 3 day cycle with a day for rest before starting over again.

I understand your thoughts on what you would personally recommend. Thinking on it, I was like "Well, if iluvgymnastics got into the gym for SOME form of weight lifting, that would be a MUCH larger gain than the possible gain difference between circuit training or low rep core training."

Then I went back and read your initial comment...You're a smart man, Charlie Brown.
 
The one lesson I've learned in life is to never qualify yourself fully. If you're a certified scuba instructor going on a pleasure dive, you give the current divemaster your regular open-water diving card, not your instructor's license.

I would much rather be known as an "enthusiast".

I think you and I will get along just fine with this comment in mind. Enthusiast is a great term.

I actually personally go on a 3day on 1 day off cycle using the body part split that I had good results with in college. It is not a workout that I would necessarily recommend to others, and not necessarily the one that I would use given optimal situations, but as the only time I have free to lift during the day is whenever I choose to take my lunch, I (imperfectly) split my body into a 3 day cycle with a day for rest before starting over again.

You'll rarely see me take issue with a setup as long as it's hitting each major muscle a couple of times per week along with a few other key points.

I understand your thoughts on what you would personally recommend. Thinking on it, I was like "Well, if iluvgymnastics got into the gym for SOME form of weight lifting, that would be a MUCH larger gain than the possible gain difference between circuit training or low rep core training."

Very true. Just get in there and move weights and focus on improvement.

Then I went back and read your initial comment...You're a smart man, Charlie Brown.

:)
 
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