What are you opinions on 19 Norandrostenedione and 4-Androstenediol? My buddy told me that after taking it he saw major increases. Just wanted to get some info. about it. Risks and advantages of it, thanks.
Supplement info./Opinions
- Thread starter MissionHockey
- Start date
Hoss
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19 norandrostenedione is a precurser to nandralone, which is a steroid(moderatly anabolic). so you're basically taking a steroid, but it's called a prohormone(which are still illegal now). but if you already know that and you're still looking to take it, it has a low chance of converting to estrogen, but there are better out there. minimal: water retention, balding, prostate enlargement, gynecomastia. moderate: acne, aggression, all the testosterone sideeffects!
4-Androstenediol, or 4-Diol, is the cream of the crop of prohormones. I forget the exact amount, but it's about 2-3 times more effective than the next best test precurser. Again this is illegal. none-mimimal: water retention, balding, prostate enlargement, gynecomastia. moderate-high: acne, aggression, all the testosterone sideeffects!
How old are you?
4-Androstenediol, or 4-Diol, is the cream of the crop of prohormones. I forget the exact amount, but it's about 2-3 times more effective than the next best test precurser. Again this is illegal. none-mimimal: water retention, balding, prostate enlargement, gynecomastia. moderate-high: acne, aggression, all the testosterone sideeffects!
How old are you?
18, recently started lifting and eating correctly.
I would suggest you wait till your atleast 26+ this is for endocrime purposes, and future health issues that could arise. weather you should take it or not depends on alot of factors. I would continue to study the subject If I were you and hold off for a bit till you have a better understanding.
Yeah I think I'm going to do that. I just recently started lifting and eating correctly about a month ago. I have seen alittle bit of a result, but I want results quicker. My buddy told me about this product that is why I wanted to get some information about it before I went and bought it. Would this stunt my growth?
yep, it sure can. if you don't know what your doing it can do alot of things to you. it can also damage your kiddneys or liver when doubled up with other common things. like certain headache medications and alcohol, the list goes on. and one whole month hu, that's a really long time. at your age and mainly experence or lack there of I think this would be a bad choice for you. prohormones are typicaly for older lifters in there 30's where there test is starting to degrade, at your age there really is no need for it. and with your inexperience it would be down right dangerious. but I see your going to do it anyway so I might as well give you some advice and a safe cycle. most cycles are 4 weeks, 2 weeks on the prohormone and 2 weeks of PCT, the 8 weeks wait till the next cycle, that can be adjusted to your desire so basicly the time your on prohormones will be the same amount of time your on PCT and double the cycles time wait till the next cycle 4AD you can take 400mg a day spread out and I would choose a better one than 19 norandrostenedione maby 1 AD. anywho for PCT on nolva taking 40 mg in the begining and reducing it slowly down to 5mg a day, also spread throughout the day and 6-oxo doing the same sorta thing, a few hundred mg's at the start and reduce it as you go. taking ZMA and tribulius this whole time will be benifital. also things like goats milk and other things that protect your liver and kiddneys, you can find a list of that all over the place, make sure you get all that stuff there is like 6 main ones. haveing blood test's at the start and the end of a cycle is a good idea, let your doctor know whats going on. make a dosage plan and everything else your going to take in the exact amount and the exact time of day you will take them. if your not safe about this, there is a good chance your going to regret it for the rest of your life. good luck
After reading these replies, I've decided I'm not going to put that stuff into my body. After all, I am going to college become a police officer... that would just be another thing I would have to admit to on the polygraph test. I do have another question though, what are some of the best supplments out there right now to shred up and build muscle? I don't want to get huge right now, I just want to become cut. Right now I take protein shakes after I come home from the gym, sometimes before. I also take NO Xplode before I go to the gym. I just want to see more results. My routine usually goes like this.
Monday: Biceps/Triceps
Tuesday: Chest/Shoulders
Wednesday: Back/Abdominals
Thursday: Repeat Monday
Friday: Repeat Tuesday
Saturday: Repeat Wednesday
Sunday: Cardio
Usually after most of my work outs I do about 15 minutes of intense cardio. I figure that I need to do more cardio if I want to cut fat and less weights. However, I do not want to loose muscle because I stop lifting. Right now, I'm 5'11, about 195lbs. Like I said, I just want to shred up. Any advice? Thanks for the great reponses!
Monday: Biceps/Triceps
Tuesday: Chest/Shoulders
Wednesday: Back/Abdominals
Thursday: Repeat Monday
Friday: Repeat Tuesday
Saturday: Repeat Wednesday
Sunday: Cardio
Usually after most of my work outs I do about 15 minutes of intense cardio. I figure that I need to do more cardio if I want to cut fat and less weights. However, I do not want to loose muscle because I stop lifting. Right now, I'm 5'11, about 195lbs. Like I said, I just want to shred up. Any advice? Thanks for the great reponses!
What do you guys think about doing more cardio and less weights? Will this cause me to lose muscle but cut up alittle bit more? Or should I do weights, but do low weights with many reps? Thanks for the great replies.
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well ok you took a 180 there so, now your trying to cut instead of bulk. well lets try this agen then. there are two thing first is bulking the second is cutting. bulking is where you gain muscle, cutting is where you loose fat. don't try to do both at the same time they counter each other, if your looking for optimal benifits. the best suppliments that will get you the best gains are a "good" multi-vitamin, EFA's. after that protein and creatine and creatine is creatine no matter what anyone else says so buying Kre-Alkalyn will just cost more and do the same thing. it doesn't matter what you think or feel this is what the FACT's say. NO Xplode is a very low prioity it's just
L-arginine which a precurser to NO. here is a template I have for fat loss. read and learn.
----
template for loosing fat (cutting)
by average I mean you just want to effectively loose fat, without becoming extreme about it. I will try and outline the basics for you, and later on you should make adjustments / additions that will best fit your needs.
all that will be discussed is for optimal fat loss
DIET : -40% protein 40% carbs 20%fat this is a basic layout. "what kind of protein?" well you should eat: chicken,tuna,eggs,fish,beef are all acceptable basically avoid things like fast food meats and other stuff that's just common since. "what about carbs?" mainly oats, whole grains, starchy vegetables, but no fruit. "and fat?" most of your fat intake should be from vegetable oils, seeds and nuts. if you don't like those foods there are some alternatives. -"how many calories?" around 200-300 or 20-30% less than your maintenance level, "how do I know what my maintenance level is?" one way to figure it out is to keep a calorie intake journal for 5-7 days. If your weight stays constant, then you simply divide the total calories consumed by the number of days and you’ll get your daily intake. -liquids: 1-2 gallons/4-8 Liters of water a day is the basic amount you want. you should eat 6 meals a day spaced out 2-3 houres. foods you will want to say away from are: soda, mayo, chips, french fries, ice cream, most salad dressings & oils(except olive oil), cheese. if you can't live without them then go for non-fat and low sugar type things. use some common sence and don't try to make drastic changes all in a day, it should be a gradual process. once you get to the weight you like then you can raise your calorie intake up to maintenance.
SUPPLEMENTS: (first tier supps) for fat loss is a multivitamin and some EFA's (essential fatty acids). (second tier supps) protein powders like casein (used before bed) would be the one of choice for fat loss, whey (after workout) is also benifital. thermogenic fat burners or stimulant-free fat burners are usefull in loosing weight, follow the direction on thoes products, they will add an extra boost to your goals (san tight is a good stimulant-free product). I would not bother with anything else like carb blockers, fat blockers, appetite suppressants, and other fat loss products you will see everywhere, with maby the exception of thyroid hormone increasers but usally there is no need for them.
WORKOUT PROGRAMS: almost any program will work. the only thing you will want to add is less rest between exercises and sets, but don't hurt yourself.
alot of these exercises have dumbbell-counterparts.
Chest: Parallel bar dips, Bench Press, Incline Press
Legs:Squats (including front squats), tiff-Legged deadlifts, Calf-raises
Back:Bent-over rows, Chins Bent-legged, Deadlifts (also a leg exercise)
Delts:Military press, Lateral raises
Arms:Close-grip bench, press Close-grip chins
you can find fully detailed workouts.
CARDIO: there are two main types of cardio you should use, first is called slow cardio and the second is called HIIT (high intensity interval training). you should use them in a ratio of 3-1 (IE 3 days of slow and 1 day of HIIT). For best results do cardio 4 times a week for an houre, too much is somtimes counterproductive and too little is well too little. "what is slow cardio?" slow cardio is doing any activity (running, biking, swimming, boxing, etc) with about 75-85% of your max heart rate for an houre. "how do I know what my max heart rate is?" well when you do an activity where you are still able to talk without being extremely out of breath, or another easy way is take 220 and minus your age then take that number and multiply it by .75-.85 which will give you rough percentages of 75-85% of your max heart rate or (HR), of course this is not entirly accurate, cause everyone is different. "ok what is HIIT then?" HIIT works like this first you warm up doing whatever for 5 min then take some time and stretch. after your all ready, start a moderate pace for 1 minute then you move your pace up to 90-95% of you max HR for the next 15-30 seconds, then go back down to your moderate pace for 1 min, then back up to 90-95% and back down agen. you get the idea (moderate for 1 min, then 90-95% for 15-30 sec) do this around 15-20 times and your done.
WILLPOWER: alot of people try to make changes too fast and end up quiting, so don't over do it, this means to slowly change your diet and work your way up to the suggested cardio regimen. if you don't workout already and don't want to that is ok, working out is not required for loosing weight but it will help the main parts are your diet and cardio. by phaledax
L-arginine which a precurser to NO. here is a template I have for fat loss. read and learn.
----
template for loosing fat (cutting)
by average I mean you just want to effectively loose fat, without becoming extreme about it. I will try and outline the basics for you, and later on you should make adjustments / additions that will best fit your needs.
all that will be discussed is for optimal fat loss
DIET : -40% protein 40% carbs 20%fat this is a basic layout. "what kind of protein?" well you should eat: chicken,tuna,eggs,fish,beef are all acceptable basically avoid things like fast food meats and other stuff that's just common since. "what about carbs?" mainly oats, whole grains, starchy vegetables, but no fruit. "and fat?" most of your fat intake should be from vegetable oils, seeds and nuts. if you don't like those foods there are some alternatives. -"how many calories?" around 200-300 or 20-30% less than your maintenance level, "how do I know what my maintenance level is?" one way to figure it out is to keep a calorie intake journal for 5-7 days. If your weight stays constant, then you simply divide the total calories consumed by the number of days and you’ll get your daily intake. -liquids: 1-2 gallons/4-8 Liters of water a day is the basic amount you want. you should eat 6 meals a day spaced out 2-3 houres. foods you will want to say away from are: soda, mayo, chips, french fries, ice cream, most salad dressings & oils(except olive oil), cheese. if you can't live without them then go for non-fat and low sugar type things. use some common sence and don't try to make drastic changes all in a day, it should be a gradual process. once you get to the weight you like then you can raise your calorie intake up to maintenance.
SUPPLEMENTS: (first tier supps) for fat loss is a multivitamin and some EFA's (essential fatty acids). (second tier supps) protein powders like casein (used before bed) would be the one of choice for fat loss, whey (after workout) is also benifital. thermogenic fat burners or stimulant-free fat burners are usefull in loosing weight, follow the direction on thoes products, they will add an extra boost to your goals (san tight is a good stimulant-free product). I would not bother with anything else like carb blockers, fat blockers, appetite suppressants, and other fat loss products you will see everywhere, with maby the exception of thyroid hormone increasers but usally there is no need for them.
WORKOUT PROGRAMS: almost any program will work. the only thing you will want to add is less rest between exercises and sets, but don't hurt yourself.
alot of these exercises have dumbbell-counterparts.
Chest: Parallel bar dips, Bench Press, Incline Press
Legs:Squats (including front squats), tiff-Legged deadlifts, Calf-raises
Back:Bent-over rows, Chins Bent-legged, Deadlifts (also a leg exercise)
Delts:Military press, Lateral raises
Arms:Close-grip bench, press Close-grip chins
you can find fully detailed workouts.
CARDIO: there are two main types of cardio you should use, first is called slow cardio and the second is called HIIT (high intensity interval training). you should use them in a ratio of 3-1 (IE 3 days of slow and 1 day of HIIT). For best results do cardio 4 times a week for an houre, too much is somtimes counterproductive and too little is well too little. "what is slow cardio?" slow cardio is doing any activity (running, biking, swimming, boxing, etc) with about 75-85% of your max heart rate for an houre. "how do I know what my max heart rate is?" well when you do an activity where you are still able to talk without being extremely out of breath, or another easy way is take 220 and minus your age then take that number and multiply it by .75-.85 which will give you rough percentages of 75-85% of your max heart rate or (HR), of course this is not entirly accurate, cause everyone is different. "ok what is HIIT then?" HIIT works like this first you warm up doing whatever for 5 min then take some time and stretch. after your all ready, start a moderate pace for 1 minute then you move your pace up to 90-95% of you max HR for the next 15-30 seconds, then go back down to your moderate pace for 1 min, then back up to 90-95% and back down agen. you get the idea (moderate for 1 min, then 90-95% for 15-30 sec) do this around 15-20 times and your done.
WILLPOWER: alot of people try to make changes too fast and end up quiting, so don't over do it, this means to slowly change your diet and work your way up to the suggested cardio regimen. if you don't workout already and don't want to that is ok, working out is not required for loosing weight but it will help the main parts are your diet and cardio. by phaledax
phaledax, thanks for all of your help. Thanks to everyone else also, you guys are so helpful. I thought taking those pills would help me cut up, that's why I was asking about them. But I went to the experts first (you guys) and got exactly the information I needed. Tomorrow I'll post and let you know all of the supplements and stuff I am taking right now. As for now, going to get to bed. Just finished a paper for my English class, pretty tired right now. Talk to you guys tomorrow. THANKS AGAIN!