Starting out...

sven1

New member
Evening all,


Here for some help and opinions... Read many similar threads but would like it to be specific to my situation.

I'm 27 soon 28 years old, 1.72 tall/short, and weighing 77kg. Having been very active since the age of 5 playing ice hockey and boxing I've always been fairly well built. Since my wife got pregnant 3 years ago I completely stopped everything and kept my heavy appetite up and gained weight! 2 months ago I decided to do something about it. Analysing my self: I eat between 2200 and 2400 calories a day, same as i have done last 2-3 years. For 2 months now I've been running 5km 4 times a week. As I've been consistant in my calorie intake I thought the running would make me start loosing weight but still 77kg +/- 200g as when I started.

Is it as simple as muscle weighs more than fat?

Any tips or pointers in the right direction are appreciated...

Thanks!
 
Afat / muscle content will definitely be a factor. How will you lose weight will also be affected by the type of foods that you are consuming, as well. As you are doing a lot of running, you are probably drinking a lot of water, too, so the balance could just be water retention, as well.

It sounds like you are doing everything right. It's too bad you didn't do any body measurements before you started, as that would be a much better indication of what your body is doing. When you look in the mirror, do you think you look trimmer? The scale is so misleading, that it should only ever be considered a rough guideline.
 
Are you saying that you're pretty much the same weight as when you started? If so, it sounds like your caloric balance has been at a maintenance level. You've been exercising enough not to gain weight, but your caloric deficit is not enough to lose weight. You either need to keep your exercise the same and reduce your caloric intake, keep your diet the same but exercise more, or a combination of more exercise and less food. How are you sure that your daily calories are between 2200-2400? Do you measure your food or record it in an online log?


You will not be gaining any muscle if you're only running, so muscle vs. fat weight is not a factor right now. To gain muscle you need to do resistance training (which is something I would recommend incorporating into your weekly routine).


Does that make sense? Hope that helps :)
 
Originally Posted by sven


Evening all,



Here for some help and opinions... Read many similar threads but would like it to be specific to my situation.

I'm 27 soon 28 years old, 1.72 tall/short, and weighing 77kg. Having been very active since the age of 5 playing ice hockey and boxing I've always been fairly well built. Since my wife got pregnant 3 years ago I completely stopped everything and kept my heavy appetite up and gained weight! 2 months ago I decided to do something about it. Analysing my self: I eat between 2200 and 2400 calories a day, same as i have done last 2-3 years. For 2 months now I've been running 5km 4 times a week. As I've been consistant in my calorie intake I thought the running would make me start loosing weight but still 77kg +/- 200g as when I started.

Is it as simple as muscle weighs more than fat?

Any tips or pointers in the right direction are appreciated...

Thanks!


Ok, so i can understand why conventional cardio like running and going on machines like the crosstrainer are universally seen as "how to get fit" because when your on them, your heart rate and body tempreature increase, like when your running your 5km. The problem is that when you stop running, your heart rate decreases and your tempreature too, in short, you stop burning calories, this means that although running is good for you and it has its place, it is far from the most effective way to achieve fast and steady body fat decrease. (i am assuming that is your goal)


The problem stems, i think, from people misconstruing endurance = fitness; it is true that the two corellate, but that is not the be all, end all. See humans are not made for long, steady endurance based activities; we are made for short, sharp bursts of power, exerting massive amounts of energy in a small amount of time, A good example of this is the comparison between olympians. Marathon runners always look, at least to some degree, mal nurished and emancicated; whilst sprinters have buff, lean and full figures with defined muscles, obviously the more healthy looking of the two. Remember our food didnt always decorate shelves for us to buy when we choose, we had to hunt, once; like lions or lepards etc; the main reason for us being designed in this way i think


So, how do you lose body fat? well, there is a means to an end. Simply speaking you lose body fat if you burn more calories than you consume; but that sort of lol info doesnt help anyone, or we would all be fit and healthy, because almost everyone knows that right?


To make this whole process easier you can take 2 steps:


1. Build muscle mass.


Easiest way to do this is through wieght traning, doing compound exercises (Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Bent Over Rows etc etc.)


As well as FUNCTIONAL cardio, like the things u may have done at school (Jumping Jacks, Mountain Climbers, Burpees/ Half Burpees). Again, short sessions maybe 10 minutes or so with short rest times.


The reason you want to build muscle mass is quite simple; 1 pound of muscle is responsible for burning 50 calories:. More muscle = Higher Metabolism = More fat burn = Loose weight.


The reason this is so much more effective is due to the afterburn effect. Basically, when ur in the gym wieght training, you cause micro trauma within the muscle your working i.e. you break it down; once you are finished the workout, your muscles are in need of recovery, so your body looks for sources of neutrients. The first place it will always go is your stomach, if there is anything there it will break it down and use that as its fuel for recovery, once thats all gone, it will look to your fat storage and start burning it for neutrients. This principle is known as the Afterburn effect; simply put, your body will continue to burn calories for upto 48 hours after an intense workout in order to aid muscle recovery.


2. Strip body fat.


Here you focus more on isolation workouts rather than total body workouts, meaning a deeper exhaustion in the targeted muscles; this will mean metabolism will keep increasing, as muscle growth will still be taking place.



The main thing is your calories though. Keep it simple i eat chicken, broccoli and brown rice 5 times a day, just as an example. portions roughly 1.5 times your fist. Other acceptable foods would be wholewheat pasta, lean ground beef, lean cut steak, tuna (in brine/water), potatos, sweet yams, cottage cheese (low fat), talapia, salmon, lean cut pork, etc etc :)


Oh, just remembered; another factor that is rarely addressed, Sleep. you need to get in anywhere from 8-10 hours of sleep every day; this is essential so that muscle recovery is speedy.


If you follow these guidelines you should be set.


Please feel free to ask any questions if there is anything your unsure of, or i didnt explain in full, its late at night here so thats a big possibility xD...
 
I just have a few questions based on your response here:


Originally Posted by LifestyleMan



The reason you want to build muscle mass is quite simple; 1 pound of muscle is responsible for burning 50 calories:. More muscle = Higher Metabolism = More fat burn = Loose weight.


When you say 1 pound of muscle burns 50 calories, how long does it take to burn these 50 calories. Is this at rest? During exercise? What intensity?


Here you focus more on isolation workouts rather than total body workouts, meaning a deeper exhaustion in the targeted muscles; this will mean metabolism will keep increasing, as muscle growth will still be taking place.


Can you please explain this more? What do you mean by 'isolation workouts' and how do these exercises 'strip body fat'?


The main thing is your calories though. Keep it simple i eat chicken, broccoli and brown rice 5 times a day, just as an example. portions roughly 1.5 times your fist. Other acceptable foods would be wholewheat pasta, lean ground beef, lean cut steak, tuna (in brine/water), potatos, sweet yams, cottage cheese (low fat), talapia, salmon, lean cut pork, etc etc :)


Eating the same thing everyday does not promote healthy nutrition as you miss out on many nutrients that must be obtained through a variety of foods - what made you choose to eat the same thing all day everyday?



Just looking for some clarification, thanks :)
 
As i said, 1 pound of muscle burns 50 calories, this is at rest, you ofcourse burn extra calories duringthe workouts, and the amount obviously bepends on many variables: rest time, weight, reps, no of sets to name a few. As to the time scale i am also a little unsure, however it would be a logical proposal to say that 1 pound of muscle burns 50 calories at rest, per day; so it is advantageous to have more muscle for higher functional strength, improved athletisism etc. Now, from here metabolism is simple math, if you have 20 pounds of muscle on you thats 1000 calories burned per day, at rest. along with the burning during your intense workouts, thats just an example to illustarate my point : D


Ok well to build muscle fast and efficiently, you are looking to do compound exercises, i.e exercises which use more than one muscle groups, the more muscles your working the better. So for example, lets take a deadlift, the muscles groups your working are:


- entire legs (Quads, Calfs, Thighs, Gluts etc)

- lower back

- forearms

- shoulders

- core (for stability)


So this is one of the best exercises to build muscle as aforementioned, because you are working alot of muscle groups, and the more muscles you break down, the more calories you burn during your workout, the more recovery your body will need to do, the more muscle mass you gain over time; which ultimately leads to higher metabolism as we stated.


However when doing these workouts we are only laying down the foundation for the next stage which is the Isolation workouts. The purpose of these are to refine the muscle that we gained in the first step, and we do this by working on only one or two muscle groups per day; so instead of working your entire body every day you workout, it will take about 3 days to work your whole body but you will be focusing more intensely on individual muscles. This strips fat because, well firstly we already have a higher metabolism from step one. Also, more focus on idivudual muscles will lead to a deeper exhaustion in the muscle in question, which will ultimately increase muscle density and shape the muscles for aesthetic appeal. This will also help to evade any plateaus that may be coming, and ensures you comtinue to progess at a desireable speed. An example of a simple split would be


day 1 - Legs and back

day 2 - Arms

day 3 - Core/ functional cardio

(repeat)


And finally the eating habits i hold to are simply to make it as easy as possible to stick to; the less food i have to cook the simpler it is, the more likely i personally am to stick to it, thats not to say everyone is; which is why i listed a whole bunch of sutiable aternatives; however let me say that for the absolute best source of protien and carbs you cannot go wrong with chicken broccoli and brown rice. chicken is the staple protien: low in fat, salt and calories and high in protien relative to weight, thats exactly what you want. steamed broccoli is easy to make, and the rice you can just forget about if you have a rice cooker; thats why i chose these. Also, with regards the nutrients im missing, they can be supplemented with vitamins, fish oils etc, its just more convenient to eat the same thing all day every day; however if your someone who gets bored with food easily id recommend variety, as that will make it more likely that you will stick to it. Although, understand its not about being bored or not for me, its about having an appealing physique, and maintaning my health, boredom doesnt come into it; besides, i relax a little on the weekends occasionally i pig out just like anyone else; but aslong as you keep the long term goal in sight, and go back to eating healthy afterwards, that balance is healthy also.



Hope that helped; i was tired having wrote the first post and i was getting vague because i had so much to say but i didnt want it to be too long for people to bother reading so yeah, if theres anything you still need clarified or would like to debate; feel free, ill try and reply a little faster next time. sorry :)
 
Hey LifestyleMan,


Thanks for the response!


With the question of how many calories that 1 pound of muscle burns in a day, I think people just need to be careful about putting an exact number on it. As far as I know, I don't think there is a lot of agreement between different studies looking into this issue. Many studies out there have come up with drastically different results, ranging from an extra 6 to 100 calories burned per day per extra pound of muscle. Maintaining or increasing muscle mass should be encouraged, but I would just hesitate on putting an exact number on this to avoid frustration for those that incorporate these numbers into their daily caloric expenditure calculations.


I don't necessarily agree with you on the necessity of progressing to isolation exercises. If your goal is to bodybuild, then by all means, this would be the route to go. But for functional strength and maintaining lean mass, focusing on compound exercises and whole-body workouts should be encouraged.


I see your point that it's easier to eat the same things everyday and that you, personally, are more likely to stick with it. However, this is not something that I would recommend to most people except as a very last resort. Even if you think you're making up for lack of variety by supplementing, there are so many other nutrients in whole foods that you won't get out of supplements. Unless you've had a comprehensive analysis done by a registered dietician or naturopathic doctor to find out what balance of nutrients you actually need, then I'd be willing to bet that the proportions of nutrients in your supplements are not adequate. Much of what goes into your everyday grocery store multivitamin is based on cost, not on what the body actually needs. You're also not guaranteed to get the ingredients that are listed on the bottle as supplement companies are often not regulated. I'm not saying that taking multivitamins is bad, I just wouldn't rely on them as your base for healthy nutrition.
 
Hey man,


With regards the amount of calories that 1 pound of muscle burns, i was meaning 50 calories as a ball park figure, i know that putting an exact figure on it unreasonable as there are too many varibales, but the basic point is the more muscle you have, the more caloies you burn whether it be 1 or 1000, its still helping, so as you said it should be encouraged.


With regards isolation excercises, i am not saying you should exclusively train with them i am saying that you naturally progress from 100% compound excercises to whatever ratio suits you, i currently try to keep it about 60 compound 40 isolation. So, for instance in the pervious post i said day 1 could be legs and back, squats and deadlifts would be encouraged on this day, but instead of only doing those whole body excersises, you incorporate isolation excercises as well, so your working the mucles more than if you just did your compound exercises, if you want to up the intensity even more, you can decrease rest times; but be advised that longer rest times are actually more helpful for muscle growth, as your muscle will recover more and therefore allow you to break it more, meaning more recovery and overall growth. So yesa i agree continue to do the compound exercises but i am saying include and focus more on the isolation ones that you previously did.


Finally on the nutritional side of things i understand where your coming from, in a perfect world we'd all get all the neutrients we needed and that would be great but for almost everyone this is an unrealistic goal, due to business or just the sheer variety of foods. in theory its great but the time it may take to prepare/cook such a host of foods is time that very little people have; so i would rather keep it nice a simple and take supplements to try and get the best of both worlds.


To put it in perspective for you let me say this, to cook a weeks worth of food for myself, consisting of 1/2 protien sources, 1 carb source and 1/2 vegetable sources it takes me under 2 hours from start to finish; if you can introduce me to a way where i can get 7 days of food done in that time, and they contain all the nutrients my body needs, as well as the fundamental building blocks for muscle growth and fat loss, ill gladly implement that into my lifestyle; but if you want me to cook 2 hours a day or more then ill pass :)



Hope i clarified my reasoning/logic behind my points, i thin i just didnt explain myself to the best of my ability; all responses welcome.




P.S i am writing in this advisory manner with the person who created the post in mind, not to undermine you or your views, so dont think my intention is to demean you, thanks :D
 
No worries, I'm not taking your responses in a bad way. It's just that when dispensing health advice, it's necessary to be able to back up your reasoning. Not that it's expected for you to write complete, essay-type responses to everything that you say, but if you say something that's unclear or contrary to research or common-practice, then someone might question you :)


I can see your point and that you've taken some time to get to where you are, and are hopefully taking steps to ensure that your nutrition is as complete as possible.


As far as the argument for varying your nutrition... Based on what you said in your first post, I interpereted that as you eat chicken, broccoli, and brown rice 5 times a day, every day. Do you eat the other "acceptable" foods that you listed as well, or were those listed as foods that the original poster could eat?
 
I eat these foods as well, but i like to keep things simple so in any given week i keep all sources of anything at around 2, so for protien chicken and beef, so that week i wont be eating salmon or tuna, pork etc, but i might other weeks if i would like. so i would argue that the easiest way to approach this would be to balance nutrition with simplicity, and in turn, time spent. if your busy and always on your feet you dont want to faffing around cooking a wide variety of foods, well at least i personally dont; so i just precook food on one day, and thats around five days worth of meals. then ones they run out ill cook another batch, again limiting sources of carbs veg and protien to around 2.


And yes this advice was directed at the original poster, if you are the type to get bored of food easily, then you would want to steer to the more viraety focused edge of the balance i suggested, however i stay more focused on the simple aspect; quick and easy to make, and tastes great with a little seasoning.
 
It may be due to muscle. You seem to be doing a bunch of aerobic exercise which is great. Make sure you eat a low calorie diet because caloric deficit is the way to go in order to lose weight.
 
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