"slow strength?" from the poliquin principles and pavel tsatsouline

P

Proteinboy

2
my whole life i have heard to lift as fast as you can, and control the eccentric.howver, after reading page 28 in poliquin prnciples and several books by Pavel Tsatsouline, i am hearing more and more about high tension, slow training.

here is a quote from poliquin:

"
For the development of maximal strength, slow speed training performed with heavy weights has a definite advantage over high speed lifting. Slowing down the movement increases both the duration of the stimulus and the levels of tension imposed on the muscle, factors that favor the development of strength and muscle mass. High intensity slow speed training which would be indicated by exercise prescriptions such as 4x6 on a 4-1-6 tempo, will produce the following muscle building effects: stimulation of the type IIa fibers, and increased muscle glycogen, CP, ATP, ADP, creatine, phosporylase, PFK, and Krebs cycle enzyme activity—all of which equate to more strength and muscle mass!)"

now that sounds way too much--6 second concentric for strength? why?
dont you recrute more motor units when lifting fast?
can someone give some clarfication please?
 
well, it's hard to argue against the results those two guys get, but IMO, don't lift slowly if you can lift fast, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do heavy weight sets that will be slow.

That slowing down the movement increases the tension sounds weird. If you do a fast contraction then at the top of the movement tension will generally be decreases since the bar has so much momentum when you reach it that you don't need to push anymore, but in the force generating portion of the lift I'd argue that lifting as fast as you can will produce more tension.. it will certainly produce more force since force=mass x acceleration. But I'm a bit uncertain about how submaximal contractions work with the force velocity relationship. But, if you were to do 6 second concentric, you can't be using your RM for that set, you will have to decrease the weight to be able to do it. So if lifting 80kg for 5 reps slowly will give you more tension than lifting it fast, won't lifting 100kg as your 5RM as fast as you can (though still slow) produce more tension because of the increased weight?
 
i think they are trying to go for the maximal time under tension. in poliquin's book, he talks about doing a lift with 100lbs.
there are 2 situations:

1-- he lifts the weight(100lbs) slowly using a 3-0-2 tempo and is able to do 5 reps. the result is 25 seconds under tension

2-he lifts the weight(same 100lbs) quickly with a 1-0-1 tempo and is able to do 10 reps. the result is 20 seconds under tension.

his conclusion is that the first lifting method will produce more tension per set because of the increased time under tension. more tension=more muscle stimulation=more overload.

in fact, i have found that i can do 20 chinups very quickly. however, when i lift with a 3-0-X tempo, that number goes down a lot!
i recently did pullups with a 3-0-X tempo and the next day i am so sore! i could do significantly less reps, but the time under tension was definetly way more, because i used to just kinda fall down on the eccentric lol.

however, he admits that slow contractions are not for athletes that have to move fast. his poliquin principles are focused more on the bodybuilder.

which is why i am trying this out with fast contractractions, yet slower eccentrics

maybe on my repetition days--days set apart for higher volume work, which is for mass building anyway--i will try out some slower contraction speeds on 1 exercise and see what it does for me. probably 3-1-3 or something along the lines.

HOWEVER--i do not know where or how this will help with increasing strength. i can understand the muscle gaining aspects...but not the strength.

Pavel makes a metaphor that says, "if your car gets stuck in a ditch and you need to lift it out, do you call a sports car like a ferarii to come pull it out fast, or do you call a tow truck that slowly produces tons of force to pull it out?"

thoughts?
 
yeah, slower eccentrics usually give more soreness. I agree that slow eccentric contractions can be used a lot, but I'm very skeptical about slow concentrics, which he also advocates if I'm not mistaken.
 
Those two guys do great incredible results. However, they're failing to talk about the TUT (time under tension) for the duration of the training time. Also, longer TUT for each rep causes you to have to drop intensity. And I'd take heavier weight over less weight any day.

Just follow the 5/3/1 or WS4SB III and you'll be set.
 
Just to confuse the situation more, have you read any of the stuff about rep speed on the tmuscle site under their new "Anaconda Protcol"? I think they are pushing fast reps and short sets (2-3 reps) for maximum stimulation. I'm not sure I agree with them.

I think the balance is to get maxiumum acceleration while not allowing momentum and/or jerking or using other muscle groups to assist the muscle you are trying to work. It takes a lot of concentration, practice and control to do it correctly.
 
it is neurologically impossible to lift maximal and submax loads fast you would lose irradiation and wholebody tightness intra abdominal pressure.
 
the idea is not to lift the load slow but steady and you can only go steady when your whole body is tight.
 
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