Oh no! And I was just starting to like you as I was reading your various posts that have been great UP to this point.
And now you go and defy my authority!!!!
LOL, ONLY KIDDING!!!!
I wouldn't even have replied to this if you hadn't said:
I disagree with Steve........
You seem to have missed my one and ONLY point. Or you are debating against "ghost topics" such as insulin sensitivity, blood glucose regulation, and the like.
If you had simply created a post outlining the numerous, known benefits associated with small, numerous feedings.... we would have been fine as I'm sure each of the benefits that you would have highlighted I would have agreed with.
Just FYI for everyone else, a brief list that highlights SOME of these benefits include:
1. Improves glucose tolerance
2. Insulin regulation/sensitivity
3. Cortisol control
4. Control cravings/appetite
5. Improve nutrient utilization
6. Possibly lowers LDL cholesterol
The list goes on. And if I had refuted these, and other concepts... your direct disagreement with me would have been warranted. However, I never suggested that there were no positive effects of small, numerous feedings or the the existence of a lack-of-importance when it comes to eating breakfast.
And please notice that "Increased metabolic rate" is NOT on the list I provided above, for good reason.
Breakfast IS IMPORTANT and should not be dismissed. It has been showed that people who do not skip breakfast tend to be slimmer than those who skip it.
Don't tell me you think that is a valid, scientific reason to eat breakfast. It couldn't be the fact that a large number of people who eat breakfast also make better food choices in general than those who skip breakfast, leading to a slimmer waistline.
Mind you, I am all about eating breakfast and never would I recommend someone to skip it.... but breakfast certainly does NOT make you skinny. Body fatness is directly correlated to TOTAL CALORIES. Period.
I'm all for using science to explain your case.... but the science has to be applicable and "good."
I've seen probably the same studies you are referring to here and I certainly would not hold them in high regard with respect to the "WHY" you should eat breakfast.
There are certainly positive reasons why you shouldn't skip breakfast. I just wouldn't use this/these study/studies as my backbone of support.
I could walk anyone through a nutrition program that didn't have a breakfast and have them lose weight. Would it be optimal? Certainly not. But still, my point is, breakfast does not make you skinny.
I disagree with Steve as people who do eat breakfast, on top of being slimmer, are far less likely to have blood sugar issues (issues which may lead to diabetes type 2) and cardiovascular problems among other things - as far as I'm concerned I consider our metabolisms as generally resistant to a lot of abuse, however I would say they are votatile in the sense that e.g. blood sugar levels can significantly alter depending on what we eat and when.
Blood sugar levels and metabolic rate are NOT the same thing.
You do realize that you are disagreeing with a point that I never made: That being that meal timing/frequency doesn't effect things such as "blood sugar issues."
Again, a point I NEVER made.
I was NOT talking about blood sugar levels. If you did any reading of my discussions on this subject you'd understand this. No crap rate of food intake effects blood sugar.
My post was solely directed at the individuals who assumed that by skipping breakfast your
metabolic rate would plummet causing a storage in fat.
This is NOT the case.
Whenever I get into one of these debates, I usually say there are numerous benefits to eating small, numerous meals. (this includes the regulation of blood glucose, insulin, etc) However, an increased metabolism is NOT one of them.
My initial point which you've tried to transform is and always was:
Human metabolism doesn't slow on a meal to meal basis. In rats/mice, probably. In humans, no way.
If you want to have a research-flinging "war" on the topic, be my guest. It certainly wouldn't be the first time I've debated this topic and won. Just make sure you are actually debating MY POINT, and not the points you make-believe I made.
My only comment was:
The metabolism is not as volatile as many think. Skipping breakfast is not going to cause any major swings in metabolic output.
Actually, number of meals doesn't really matter all that much IN TERMS of metabolic output.
Going off on a tangent with regards to variables aside from metabolic rate does absolutely nothing in terms of my point that you disagreed with.
Sorry if I sound defensive, but it seemed to me like you were trying to turn my words into something they weren't.
On top of the studies that delve into the impact of meal frequency/timing, look at empirical evidence. I've trained a boat load of individuals in my time. I can tell you without a doubt in my mind that eating 3 meals compared to 6, when calories and macros are identical, don't make any difference in end-physique-result. I should couch this statement with the fact that some people would rather eat more frequently, which is great. It helps with satiety. Others don't like to. Bottom line: As long as cals and macros are accounted for and they can make either approach work for them, they net result will be the same in terms of body composition.
People with poor digestion, which is increasingly common, are generally even more prone to problems if they do not eat for prolonged periods of times, or eat a big meal in one go.
Again, certainly not what I was advocating.
I trully believe that actually, metabolic output is heavily influenced by meal composition of course, and meal time and frequency.
Ahhh, finally. You make a point that is in direct opposition to my one and only, original point.
Care to explain? Or better yet, show proof?
As I said above, although there are too many variables at play (like insulin, blood glucose, leptin, peptide YY, gherlin, etc, etc, etc) to know exactly what is happening on a meal by meal basis, it's been obviously proven with research and real world results that meal frequency and timing really don't impact the net, end-of-the-day result IN TERMS OF
METABOLIC RATE. That is not to say there aren't many other variables that are effected by meal frequency/timing/rate. I was only speaking of
metabolic rate.
If you had to choose one or the other..... 3 meals vs. 6.... certainly choose 6. It is most likely the "healthier" option assuming you are making the correct food choices...... and "healthier" being a very broad concept.
But in relation to weight loss and physique, aside from any psychological levels of satiety and the like, there is not much going on on the physiological level when comparing metabolism and meal frequency/timing.
Steve is right to say that prolonged starvation takes longer than that (which will occur if you eat a meal of less than approx 1200 cal a day for a while, which is what the others may have meant), however the body will still be in what can be called "fasting mode" during that day (which some people call rightly or wrongly starvation mode - I feel the terms are interchangeable as long as the context is made clear) as you wouldn't have eaten all night and day.
Starvation mode in the fitness industry = a state of depressed metabolic rate due to prolonged periods of energy deficiency. It's primarily the set of physiological adaptations primarily involving hormonal shifts that lead to this depression in metabolic rate.
This is a moot point though, as it does little for the debate at hand.
Asit's been explained, not eating for a prolonged amount of time will slow down your metabolism.
Bingo.
If you havent eaten all day, you are more vulnerable to binge/over eat all that unhealthy food, and you wont get your vegs and fruits in.
And thus, you have one of the psychological reasons why small, numerous meals are better. However, your argument against my original post/point really doesn't stand any ground unless you really care to explain this:
I truly believe that actually, metabolic output is heavily influenced by meal composition of course, and meal time and frequency.
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I'd just like to add this:
People over-hype the benefits of small, numerous feedings due to its attention it gets in this industry as of late. Certainly, there are health benefits associated with eating small, numerous feedings (some of those outlined above). However, they should be the least of our worries. If you want to eat 3 meals per day, go for it.
In a day of age where a vast majority of individuals are shoving big macs down their throats followed by a gallon of coke at an alarming rate, the last thing we, as professionals in the industry, should concern ourselves or our clients with is the number of meals they eat.
In many cases, twisting someone's arm to eat 5-7 meals instead of their normal 3 would leave them hating their "diet" and falling off the wagon.... most likely gaining weight.
Best bet is to educate individuals on how to make proper food choices and allow them to allocate those food choices over their day as they see fit. Possibly after good food-choice-habits are established then tweak meal timing and frequency.
But doing so right off the bat, in my opinion, does more harm than good for the average individual trying to lose weight.
Lula, I know this is going beyond our discussion.... but this is more a general thought of mine on the topic at hand.