Running WITHOUT losing weight?

[Petdevils]

Running WITHOUT losing Muscle/Protein?

G'day All,

I have a few related questions I need clarification on, if possible, this would be great.

I'm pretty thin, and want to gain weight in the form of lean muscle and drop some fat at the same time. I have been given a heavy weights program to do 2-3 times a week from a pro, but have heard so many different opinions on cardio and weights, as most people say:

"You shouldn't do cardio if you want to gain weight, you're wasting energy you can otherwise use for muscle"

Now, while I can understand some of that, I would like to run or walk for 30 mins a day in the mornings to help wake up, get the blood pumping, increase my aerobic fitness and cut some fat.

I know I'm supposed to eat a small hi carb snack with some protein atleast 30 mins before i run/walk - so my muscles don't get burnt up to fuel my run if it was on an empty stomach. That's cool, i get that now...

but......

This is where it gets blurry, say I run/walk 30 mins and use about 300 calories to do so.... now if i eat 300 calories of mostly carbs and a bit of protein specifically to fuel the run but just enough to do it, in theory if i burn all that up (or most) how do i lose fat if my body doesn't need to get any energy from my stored fat?

Am I meant to provide just a little starter fuel from my pre-run snack and then run long enough to use more calories than I consumed before hand in order for my body to need to dip into my fat reserves to burn them away a bit?

Will it be productive for me to do this 30 min run/walk everyday, or can this cause problems - being counter productive or stuffing up my legs etc?

My logic is I will feel better if i have a run in the mornings and would rather do it daily than every 2nd day, so that the days I don't run, i'll prolly feel more dodgy because there's no kick start plus i need a good routine?

So, with all the above situation in mind. Can I have my cake (cardio) and eat it too (weights) while losing fat but without losing good weight(muscle/protein)?

 

[surreal]

You've certainly done some homework but why are you assuming that you burn all your calories from protein and carbs before fat when you run?






It seems cardio uses a little protein but does burn or break muscle tissue. But thats not much different than anaerobic, since you break or burn muscle when working with resistance. The key is having enough protein afterwards when your muscles regenerate. Muscle mass isn't created during a work-out when strength training, its broken down. Its created in the rest period.

So if you eat enough and get enough protein daily I dont see how running will slow you down.. should speed you up since it'll be strengthing muscles.

And muscle burns fat using oxygen. Running/cardio should burn more calories from fat than anything else (unless you're low in body fat, you'll be burning more carbs I suppose). Wish I had more authority on these matters...

Calorie intake before you run may cause you to burn a little less fat but you'll still be burning more fat than protein, and if you dont have calories to burn before the run you WILL start burning muscle tissue along with fat.

I used to believe running in the morning without eating anything was best... but thanks to your post and the sites i'm still looking up because of reading this, I think I'll start eating a can of light tuna and maybe something small and high in carbs when I wake up...

 

[Petdevils]

Hi Surreal,

Thanks a bunch for your post, I found they did make a bit more sense of some things i had half right in my mind and others i didn't even know about.

I was very surprised by some of the info you linked me to, so based on that new knowledge, to burn fat I'd be better walking for 30 mins a day than running.... and basically if i start to lose my breath while walking or need to exert more effort to breath than i would without excercising, i should slow down a tad?

Will 30 mins have some effect on fat burnt? I would prefer not to walk longer than that but if it would have a negligble effect then i may have to? I think i'll trial it and if i need to go to an hour i might consider it later

Going with the Heart Zone training theory, im planning on doing the Fitness Zone for a walk so 65% of max heartrate, which for me is about 128.05 bpm. According to the theory posted that 85% of calories burned in this zone are fats, 5% are proteins and 10% are carbohydrates

I'm also still lookin for some calorie expert to further make sense of the snack before 30 mins walk - i only want to eat just barely enough food before i run to prevent protein loss from my muscles being burnt up as fuel - so what exactly should that food be and how much?

So for example if the Fitness zone thing works, does that mean i should only try and eat the 5% of protein, 10% of carbs from the total amount of the calorie expenditure of the session. so that would mean from 300 calories burned, i would need 1.25 grams of protein, 2.5 grams of carbs and then theoretically 9.44 grams of fat would be burnt off from my extant fat stores?

Also, if i take my pulse and it is too low, do i just work harder, and if its too high work less etc?

The other thing i wanna check is about heat, im pretty sure this is right but just to be certain.... i plan on wearing a tracksuit to be warmer than in shorts and a shirt, this helps raise core temperature and helps with everything else right?

Anyway, thanks for your answers so far, i hope more can continue to come in, cheers

 

[surreal]

"to burn fat I'd be better walking for 30 mins a day than running...."

Yes and no. From the information I've found low intensity training burns fat before carbs and protein and high intensity training will burn more of the latter two.

However, keep in mind your body burns fat after you're dong training as well. High intensity gets your metabolism and heart racing so you'll continue to burn more after a high intensity work out, well after the work out is over.

But it can be done several ways... For instance, whats your diet like? I dont have a strict diet and eat whatever I want as long as it isn't useless (like junk food which is nothing but fat). The only thing I do is make sure I have enough protein.

If you cut fat from your diet though you're need for cardio/aerobic would be less.

You might also want to consider working estensive cardio at first, to get you to a low body fat count, and then switching to a strengthening routine with low levels of cardio workout. Keep your diet good, strengthen and do cardio once in a while just for overall fitness/stamina (lung, heart, etc).

But if your diet contains fat or fatty supplements then maybe a 20 minute fast run would work better than a long walk. You won't have to worry about burning protein as long as your getting enough by the end of the day. You don't build muscle when working out or running, you break it down. You build it when your body enters repair mode.

Everyone works differently of course so if you cut out running and replace it with walking let me know how it turns out. I'd like to keep running but I can't seem to fully recover from these shin splints (been 3 weeks). Maybe I could use a brisk daily walk myself.

"so what exactly should that food be and how much?"

I eat a couple small cans of tuna (chunk light) after every run now (which is sadly only a few times a week since I dont risk running on streets with my leg). Theres albicore and other canned fish/seafood but chunk light has a pretty low mercury count according to the FDA. Alibcore is higher. 2 small cans is half my protein for the day.

Eggs work well too. Most people recommend the whites because all the cholesterol and fat is found in the yolk but I can't throw good food out. The fat in eggs is monosaturated anyway. So its not as bad as you think. Still, most people recommend just the white since most of the protein is contained there anyway.

And popping a couple cans of tuna or hard boiled eggs doesnt put many calories in you. Tuna is about 70 calories per can (mine are anyway). I just wish I could find cans in water without soy or salt added... little high in sodium.

Biggest reason not to eat or drink a lot of fluid before running is because it can cause cramps. So eating small and drinking only a little water is best. Unless you can give yourself an hour or two, then you wont have to worry.

Alternatively you can probably find a good protein bar, or health bar as well.

"this helps raise core temperature and helps with everything else right?"

Heat will cause you to sweat water out and to some extent burn fat but I believe its mostly water. Its hot right now and I usually don't dress warm in the winter but it seems like a good idea.. I'll have to look into it.

I knew people in high school that used to use plastic bags to work out in right before weigh in time for wrestling. We were specifically told not to screw around like that in football, because aside from being dangerous you were really cheating yourself by dehydrating yourself to bring your weight down, and that it actually weakened your body.

So I guess theres a limit to how far you'd push that... maybe someone else knows more than I about where that limit should be? Certainly a jogging suit in 90 degree weather would be overkill, but would it be a good idea during cooler weather just to sweat a little more?

 

[Petdevils]

"to burn fat I'd be better walking for 30 mins a day than running...."

ok, so now I get what your saying, but i'll stick to walking as a preference as I know i will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off for 1-2 hours after my session as i'll be getting ready for work, public transport etc And the weight sessions during the week should do a similiar job for my metabolism etc as a high intensity cardio session might have done, so i got both covered in a sense.

The goal for the heartrate is to gradually get it consistently slower and slower isn't it, for a really healthy/fit person... so i have to constantly keep track of how my HR changes and modify my goals etc to suit.

whats your diet like?

As I said i'm not fat by any means, very lean, but have unnecessary fat on thighs and a lil on my stomach although you'd never know lookin at me. I'm currently 73kg which I'm absolutely stoked about because i have NEVER been this heavy, and it's clean weight. I'm 6"3" and have always been around 65kg. I have a loosely=strict diet as much of a contradiction it might sound. Meaning I eat what I want, but I am focusing on eating enough at the right times of the day with overall goal for highest protein, lowest fat, and right amount of carbs.

So this intelligent eating as I think of it has enabled me to put on 8 kilo's in the last 2-3 weeks without any excercise, just eating great food. I have about 50-70g protein for breakfast, and 4-5 other meals of 30g most times. So diet is pretty well covered, i have hundreds of entries in excel i made a database and calculate the nutritional value of recipes before i make them for example, so i can see if their worth making at all.
I dont have a strict diet and eat whatever I want as long as it isn't useless (like junk food which is nothing but fat). The only thing I do is make sure I have enough protein.

If you cut fat from your diet though you're need for cardio/aerobic would be less.

I hope you're right, i'll have to wait and see how well my diet works etc, cause im not a total nazi about cuttin all fat from my diet, as being overweight isn't the problem. So if it comes that I don't need so much cardio, that's cool i'll prolly cut it back but still keep it, cause i think it'd be good for my head, a solid routine etc.

My body fat was 24% about 4-5 months ago, i think it's prolly dropped 5-10% since then so im not too concerned about doing a massive cutting trip before getting into weights, but yeah, might taper the cardio once i find the fat is staying off.

Might try running after doing walking and weights for a while so i have a good month or 2 as a benchmark to compare the effects of running vs walking, the other thing is i have bad knees so low impact may be best.

I don't know what exactly is wrong with your shins, but i know myself that my shins/ankles etc the muscles around their are very weak, so im doing calf raises and stuff to help strengthen them - maybe something like this might help you? all you need is a step etc.

lol, not sure i'd be up to tinned fish, i've only really started eating fish properly of late, and prefer lighter tastes, but might look at working tuna into my diet. i couldn't have fish until lunch atleast, just seems wrong to me lol

Basically, i'll just have 2 glasses of water, small meal maybe cereal but will see if that causes a problem running, i know its gotta be simple food thats quick to digest. Don't want to have to rely on protein bars or even WPI in milkshakes for example, i've used them before and although im sure they work to varying extents they are hella expensive. I really want to try and do it all by just eating really well - if that works out too time consuming, then i'll look at stuff. i have found a good protein bar tho that i'll keep in my bag at work for emergencies when you get caught out when you had planned to be home and need some good food.

Heat will cause you to sweat water out and to some extent burn fat but I believe its mostly water

I'd be interested to see if you or anyone finds out anything more about this, as maybe i should rethink it. If you sweat heaps doesn't that mean you will have a lower water content that will affect your muscles... i know lots of people use creatine etc to increase the water content to help muslces look big and work well? so yeah, unless i find out otherwise, im not sure what i will do regarding this. On the other hand, isn't it a good thing to sweat to get rid of bad toxins etc?

So yeah maybe that addition of information might fill out the scenario im in, i figure if im gonna put on good weight, i would like to look atleast average to decent for once and it'd make sense to cut what fat i have within reason to further optimise how well my definition will show... but i'll take what i can get i just wanna find out these things so im not killing myself thinking im doing the right thing, then find out i've taken one step forward and 2 steps back.

Thanks again, keep those comments coming in, many minds see different things. ciao

 

[Petdevils]

no more answers anyone....?

would appreciate some more advice on the food just before cardio thing? cheers