It's "Go time".....help w/food please

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Gang,

You all know me as the guy who does long bike rides, spins, swims and does some running....ALL of this is done while I'm dieting and my entire efforts have been focused on burning fat, losing weight & leaning-out. Read on.

On some days I can entirely tell how I've eaten the day before. There's a saying "you burn today what you ate yesterday"...so when I really go lean one day, I may not have the energy to do my 3.75-hour bike/swim/run routine....but having big, medium or whatever energy is no biggy...I just plot along and burn the calories. So, I've got my eating pretty much down to deal with my routine.

Well....I've somehow managed to coax the general manager of the gym, and the guy who heads-up the spin classes, to actually try mountain biking and join me on my favorite trail. My ride is 2.75 hours, has a total ascent of 3,200-feet and cost me about 2,350 calories on average. I've taken guys who have ridden for years and watched them get off their bikes or bonk...the steep hills really put it to ya.

The guy I'm taking is a bit older then me, he's a bit flabby BUT he supposedly rides 100-mile road bikes on a somewhat regular basis...or so he says.

It's not a competition, I don't want to kick his ass.....but I don't want my ass handed to me either. And finally...here comes my question:

I have NEVER eaten for energy/performance....I have always run a calorie deficit and my focus is entirely on losing weight...so the carbs are lean, the protein high and the fat is kept in check. On the day I ride with him, I don't want to hit the trail on a half-a-tank. I want to stack the glycogen, fill the tank and be ready to produce some serious energy & power! I've had rides when I feel lots of enegy and I've had rides when I can tell I went too lean the day before. I've also never done any gels, goos or any of that stuff.

So this is like a competition day...I wanna be primed & ready. Ironically, the day before this ride, I still plan to hit the gym and do my 2 spin-classes, run and swim a mile. I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to do that the day prior to a competition. Again, it's not an actual competition, but I want to be able to keep-up, hold my own and perhaps even show him (his first time mountain biking) that mountain biking is pretty tough.

So guys.....for a day or so I'm gonna put aside the calorie deficit. I've never really done this before...so please help me. What should I eat? How much should I eat? When should I be eating? I don't want any stimulants or crazy stuff....just clean fuel, a full tank of glycogen and tell me what to eat & drink to make the most of it.

Thanks! And if G8r80 and FF don't respond, I'll be crushed. And FF, it's okay to be rude, crude & lude (like we could stop ya )

 

[tjl]

Wouldn't the usual method of carbo-loading be to eat high carbohydrate starting right after your last workout before the event (preferably a high carbohydrate snack immediately after if will be some time before you can eat a high carbohydrate meal)? (Note: high carbohydrate means high in "clean" carbohydrates, not junk food.)

On the other hand, if you do your usual ride without carbo-loading and don't bonk on it, you're probably already pretty efficient at burning fat so that you don't use up your glycogen during the ride. Although if you ride at a higher than usual intensity, you may use glycogen at a higher than normal rate and bonk.

Note that glycogen storage causes water retention; your weight difference between fully carbo-loaded and carb-depleted may be 5 or even 10 pounds.

 

[g8r80]

TJL, I'm here

Steve, I think you're overthinking this. The dude is older and a little flabby and doesn't do much mountainbiking? You could drop him like third period French.

Just do what I and most others do: eat a hearty meal 1 - 2 hours before your event and you'll be fine.

 

[tsilcyc]

You could:

a. carbo load two nights before, have a normal dinner the night before, and have a normal breakfast the day of.

OR

b. carbo load the night before and eat a normal breakfast the day of.

Option A is the new belief where Option B is old school. I go old school.

 

[annierknight]

I'm new here.... sounds like you guys work out A LOT. Nice one.

Definitely interested in how your 'competition' goes.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Well....today was a freakin' catastrophe!!!

After the TK-weekend I felt a bit heavy and off-routine...so for the last 4 days I've been really cutting the calories AND taking many people's advice, I've been avoiding carbs and pushing lean protein. Oh, it works....quite rapidly I felt leaner & lighter.

Today I did my first spin-class just fine, good power. Then I got on the treadmill and ran...after a mile I felt a bit weak, but I remember how FF says you have to push past the pain....so I kept running at 6mph and covered 2.25 miles before having to stop for my 2nd spin-class. When I got off the T-mill, I didn't feel very good. It's normal to feel a bit disoriented: you go from running on a stationary machine to walking on a floor actually moving...but I soon realized "something" wasn't right.

I walked over to some friends anticipating that if something should happen, they'd be there. I felt light-headed, weak and a bit like I was going to pass-out. I went into the spin-room and drank some protein shake and ate a protein bar (200 cals). Drank some water too.

The next class began and I just didn't feel the energy...after 15 minutes I started having weak spells with more light headedness...at a few instances I was really worried...so I unloaded the bike and figured, not wanting to quit, I'd just cruise at 115-125 heart-rate and finish-out the class...but that intent didn't last long: I could tell, if I didn't stop, my body would. Seriously guys, it's scary....feels like someone is jiggling your life switch.

I got off the bike...first time EVER quitting a class early. Ate a zone bar (210 calories, has some carbs) and finished my protein shake. I waited 10 minutes but continued feeling weird....not wanting to face potential embarrassment I just walked away from the spin-room and went to the shower to cool down. Like a stubborn jackass, I still got in the pool and slowly, taking 3-4 breaks, swam my mile...but it was weak and hampered. Part of me wanted to work past it, another part figured I was burning a lot of fat at this point and still another part just didn't want to think I had to quit.

Went home, ate 2 pieces wheat bread, a banana, 3 tablespoons low-fat peanut butter, 2 chicken thighs and 2 pieces dark chocolate....trying to give my body some food, ya know.

Yesterday was very lean calories and I did weights prior to that. Dinner last night was 1/2 a yam and 3 pieces of chicken...breakfast this morning was a medium apple and a low-carb tortilla with 1 piece melted cheese.

I dunno, I'm still getting over a respiratory thing, but I think I'm just pushing too hard and not eating enough. If I do 3.75 hours of cardio, I need carbs...but when I eat carbs, everyone tells me my fat-loss/weight-loss is hampered. It's frustrating....I just want to burn this fat off my body and I enjoy doing all this cardio as a means to do it....I'm just having trouble finding that happy medium-ground.

Back on subject....

Steve, I think you're overthinking this. The dude is older and a little flabby and doesn't do much mountainbiking? You could drop him like third period French..

Yes...he's older and yes, he's a bit flabby.....BUT he apparently does 100-mile road rides routinely....that says something! And too many people suggest that road-biking is tougher then mountain biking...so perhaps he's conditioned and will pass me like I'm standing still. Then again, I've also heard that mountain biking is tougher then the road...so who knows. The one thing I'm fairly certain of is that he doesn't encounter 17%-grade hills while road biking and he's not used to pushing a heavy bike with thick tires...so it's a heavy-load that requires torque. There are hills so steep that you learn to peddle/balance as slow as possible just so you can keep your heart-rate below 170 and not have to get off the bike.

Drop him like 3rd period French? I doubt it. You know how it is when you ride with friends.....it always starts with "it's not a competition" and then guys start talking about how they skipped breakfast, are recovering from a sprain and all the quiet disclaimers start coming out....then you get riding and pretty quickly the line-up gets established and the ego's kick in. You can't help it, better riders push you and there's always a quiet under-tow of competitiveness...especially on a first ride when the pecking-order isn't established yet.

Just do what I and most others do: eat a hearty meal 1 - 2 hours before your event and you'll be fine.

I can usually ride without bonking....but like today, I've learned that performance IS tied to fuel. They say, what you burn today, you ate yesterday. I've heard of carb-loading....and I understand about "clean carbs".....but how much??? I regularly go light on carbs and I basically eat about 2,000 calories per day, more on exercise days, less when I'm trying to really cut and make some thinning progress.

Also, eating a couple hours before a ride doesn't do well for me...too much digestive drama in the tummy. So I'm guessing eating well the night before and what do you think....about 2,500 calories of potato, wheat pasta, fruit???

 

[g8r80]

Yes...he's older and yes, he's a bit flabby.....BUT he apparently does 100-mile road rides routinely....that says something! And too many people suggest that road-biking is tougher then mountain biking...so perhaps he's conditioned and will pass me like I'm standing still. Then again, I've also heard that mountain biking is tougher then the road...so who knows. The one thing I'm fairly certain of is that he doesn't encounter 17%-grade hills while road biking and he's not used to pushing a heavy bike with thick tires...so it's a heavy-load that requires torque. There are hills so steep that you learn to peddle/balance as slow as possible just so you can keep your heart-rate below 170 and not have to get off the bike.

"Technical" mountain-bike riding (e.g., small jumps, riding over logs, stumps, rocks, steep descents) require great balance and finesse but not much cardio strength. Riding up 17% grades requires high cardio fitness and compares to the hardest road riding you can encounter.

As for the century rider, the fact that a person can complete a century just shows that he has good muscular endurance, whether he is taking 5 hours or 8 hours. I would be much more concerned about riding with a guy who can hang with the Saturday hammerfest studs, which I suspect this guy cannot (nor can I for that matter:action.

Also, eating a couple hours before a ride doesn't do well for me...too much digestive drama in the tummy. So I'm guessing eating well the night before and what do you think....about 2,500 calories of potato, wheat pasta, fruit???

Are you gonna eat 2,500 calories for dinner the night before? I do not get much energy from last night's dinner. If I don't eat before a hard ride, I will certainly bonk.

 

[tjl]

Well....today was a freakin' catastrophe!!!

After the TK-weekend I felt a bit heavy and off-routine...so for the last 4 days I've been really cutting the calories AND taking many people's advice, I've been avoiding carbs and pushing lean protein. Oh, it works....quite rapidly I felt leaner & lighter.

Looks like you bonked. If you are eating very low carbohydrate, do not be surprised if you bonk easily.

but when I eat carbs, everyone tells me my fat-loss/weight-loss is hampered.

If you eat carbs, but reduce the same number of calories from your other macronutrient intake (but be sure to get enough protein), your fat loss should not be hampered. However, being carb-loaded will increase water retention, so you will weigh 5 or even 10 pounds more than in a carb-depleted state (as you would be after bonking or doing a low carbohydrate diet).

The problem that many people have with carbohydrates is that (a) they eat junky carbohydrates like soda or other mostly-sugar foods that give low satiety (so they eat way too much of them) and (b) they combine carbohydrates with fat (either junk food, or things like bread + butter, pasta + alfredo sauce) to produce a huge calorie bomb greater than if they ate either carbohydrates or fat alone.

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Guys,

I really want to thank you for taking the time to read & respond to my questions...it's nice to know I have friends who take an interest in my situation, thanks!

"Technical" mountain-bike riding (e.g., small jumps, riding over logs, stumps, rocks, steep descents) require great balance and finesse but not much cardio strength. Riding up 17% grades requires high cardio fitness and compares to the hardest road riding you can encounter.

As for the century rider, the fact that a person can complete a century just shows that he has good muscular endurance, whether he is taking 5 hours or 8 hours.

LOL.....ya know what....I totally forgot. Seriously. For most people mountain biking is tricky single-track, some jumps, perhaps a rut, rock & log...basically technical stuff and maybe...MAYBE some hills to get to the trail.

I ride a mountain bike...so I call it "mountain biking", but what I'm doing is riding fire-roads. These roads are graded and maintained so that a fire-truck can negotiate through the mountains to tackle fires or gain back-access into residential areas. There's a rut here and there, but for the most part you don't need any suspension and if you put slightly wider tires on your road bike, you could probably do the ride....but Lord help you when you hit the 14-17% grades....it doesn't sound like much, but it feels like 45-degrees!

Richard, you've seen my ride on Google-Earth....it's 22.5 miles total (there & back), but it's miles of hills....some hills go 500 feet, others go for 2.5 miles...up & up & up. The total ascent is 3,200-feet. Takes a total of 2 hours & 35 minutes....and it seems like 18 minutes is spent free-wheeling downhill and the rest grinding to get up the hills. Yeah, he won't cake-walk it.

Are you gonna eat 2,500 calories for dinner the night before? I do not get much energy from last night's dinner. If I don't eat before a hard ride, I will certainly bonk.

Hmmm....I don't know...that's why I'm asking. So I've got "eat 2 days ahead of time, one night ahead of time and the morning of....LOL.

If I eat anything heavy within 2 hours, I tend to notice a lot of stomach drama while riding....I suppose I prefer the night before. What about that saying "you burn today what you ate yesterday"? Seems to me the glycogen supplies should be topped-off the day before and not the morning of....the digestive process alone takes energy, that's why it's said our heart-rates increase after a meal.

Btw, my idea of clean-carbs is: oatmeal, yams, fruit, wheat bread, wheat pasta and anything made by Weber (not the BBQ, the carbuerator manufacturer)

Ummm....okay: so I must have bonked today. Funny, I did feel out of energy, but more so I felt like I was getting weak blood to the brain or something. I've expereincing the bonking when I don't have energy to fuel the muscles....but this time it was that AND the dizziness/nauseau and feeling like I was going to faint.

Question: I've eaten and I ate carbs....it's been about 5 hours and I still don't quite feel right: how long will it take till I've recovered, can I do weights tomorrow morning when my trainer comes? Can I do my usual spin/run/swim on Friday??

Isn't there some access panel I can open and find some dip-stick or meter to measure how my levels are? This "human factor" sucks!

 

[BikeSwimLaugh]

Good news...

Just saw a friend/doctor....he pointed-out that I'm still getting over that nasty virus that was going around...and it's still in my lungs. He said not to underestimate it's affect.

So, too much exercise, too few calories...definitely was hypoglycemic....but factor-in the bug and that's what went wrong with me.

Rest, sleeep, water, no more then a 20% deficit on the calories, scale back cardio to mortal levels...and I'll be fine.

I think I'll postpone this weekend's ride....I need to get better before I kick some spin-instructor butt.