Sport Insulin Spike Question

[theGOOCH]

I found this question on another site (it was never answered) Anyway, it mirrors what I have been wondering and I hope someone here can comment

"We are told to avoid spiking insulin all day, but then that it is fine post workout. We know this is because at this time, spiking insulin would cause the nutrients to be shuttled directly to our muscles and not at all to fat cells.

What effect, however, does this insulin spike have on our pancreas and endocrine system? What distinguishes the PWO insulin spike (given by something like Surge) from the unhealthy insulin spike at any other time, from an endocrinal perspective?"

 

[Trevor M.]

What distinguishes the PWO insulin spike (given by something like Surge) from the unhealthy insulin spike at any other time, from an endocrinal perspective?"

The first thing that should be noted, is. The insulin response one gets from ingesting say 30 grams of pure D-glucose. Directly after a heavily intense weight lifting session. Is not the same as if one took 30 grams after sitting on their ass all day.

Two major factors play into this reasoning. When exercise intensity raises, so does GLUT-4 transporters and catecholamines levels raise. Catecholamines retard insulin secretion. However, for the body to compensate. GLUT-4 transporters are more heavily activated. GLUT-4, role in the body. Is to allow transportation of glucose, with little insulin, into the needed cells.

Now, following intense exercise. These "factors" stay elevated for possibly hours into the day.
The average person, takes their PWO very soon after exercise finishes. While these components are still very active. Thus, the "insulin" spike is drastically lower then it could have been.

So, because of these factors. Your negating several of the "harmful" aspects of insulin spiking. While achieving the benefits...

I over simplified some of this for explanation. But, you get the point.

I'm sure other members can go on about the "benefits" about PWO "insulin spiking".

 

[Nicolasd]

I hardly dare say anything after that Trevor

I honestly just thought it had a lot to do with the muscles and liver absorbing all the carbs as glycogen, so you needed to get something high GI enough to act faster than that to get insulin, and that it also meant none of the carbs ended up as fat anyway.

 

[Trevor M.]

Well, Yes and no.

Yes, part of the reasoning behind high GI supplementation. Is the fact it encourages glycogen formation.

No, in that. Carbs can still offer itself as actyle-coa. Which means, there is still a likely possibility for triacylglycerol formation.

As, one must remember. Insulin spike = fat breakdown lowers. While Fat synthesis heightens.
After exercise, its safe to assume this is to less of an affect, though.

 

[Chillen]

Great posts, Trevor. One good read, brotha.

 

[theGOOCH]

So you would say there is a negligible effect on things like triglycerides, likelihood of developing diabetes etc. even if you split your cardio/lifting to different times a day therefore spiking twice a day (I'd end up spiking 7-8 times a week)?

Ok, so first thing in the morning after relieving myself and with very little clothes on I weigh about 195, so throughout most of the day if I step on the scale I'm maybe a hair under 200 lbs ....how much high GI carbs do I need?

 

[Trevor M.]

So you would say there is a negligible effect on things like triglycerides, likelihood of developing diabetes etc. even if you split your cardio/lifting to different times a day therefore spiking twice a day (I'd end up spiking 7-8 times a week)?

How many hours between cardio and weights?

Ok, so first thing in the morning after relieving myself and with very little clothes on I weigh about 195, so throughout most of the day if I step on the scale I'm maybe a hair under 200 lbs ....how much high GI carbs do I need?

Regardless of weight, the general recommendation is 2:1 ratio of a high GI carbs to protein. Little to any fat and or fiber.

I suggest you read this article on PWO's. Written by Leigh Peele.

 

[theGOOCH]

How many hours between cardio and weights?




Regardless of weight, the general recommendation is 2:1 ratio of a high GI carbs to protein. Little to any fat and or fiber.

I suggest you read this article on PWO's. Written by Leigh Peele.

about 4 hours between cardio and weights. I do cardio at 8AM and generally lift at 12:30-1:00.

I'll read the article...but I guess I figured the amount of the whole shake or meal would depend on my weight. Most whey protein powders I see are about 23 grams per scoop, so if I had that with 46 grams of dextrose would that be enough pwo nutrition?

 

[theGOOCH]

...hhhmmmm...

I read the article and I think I'd put myself in this category...

Category 2-Focused Trainee
Moderate to Aggresive aerobic activity level
Caloric maintenance or deficit no greater than 25%
Moderate to aggressive resistance training
Training time 60 mins or less
Intensity overall of a 7-8 ranking

"Your PWO nutrition-A solid meal within 30 mins of training.
Whole foods and a macro breakdown of pro/carb with heavier focus on simple/complex
sugars and lower fats/fibers.
Translation-You should eat soon after working out and put some focus on PWO nutrition but don't freak out and go and buy some dextrose and whey just yet."



...but If I'm going to eat sugars anyway, I figure I may as well do the dextrose

 

[theGOOCH]

I've done more research the last couple days and I keep finding references to more recent studies that suggest low gi carbs are just as effective with less chance of adipose storage.

I'll endeavor to find the actual studies.

Many suggest oats with whey...I may try this. I just don't feel comfortable consuming that much simple sugar...and getting the buzz and crash effect.

 

[Trevor M.]

I've done more research the last couple days and I keep finding references to more recent studies that suggest low gi carbs are just as effective with less chance of adipose storage.

Both will lead to atleast some "adipose storage". There will be very little difference in net gain BLM, in this situation.

and getting the buzz and crash effect.

Following an intense bought of exercise. One should not encounter this affect. As I explained above. This is not the same "spike" as a person gets, from say:when eating candy after being lazy all day.