In-saddle vs. out-of-saddle question

BikeSwimLaugh

BikeSwimLaugh

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I've been told...."in the saddle you are more efficient, out of the saddle you are more powerful, but less efficient"

I know my HR goes up as soon as I get out of the saddle...that much is for sure...so it stands to reason more energy is being exerted, BUT is that energy just the energy I'm not exerting to now keep my upper-body weight suspended (whereas before the weight was being carried by the seat)?

I'm fairly sure it's a mix.....some of the additional energy is spent keeping my upper-body off the seat, but some of it must go into the peddles...and that's because I'm noticing faster speed. So as far as efficiency, yeah....some power is lost into supporting our torso/upper-body...but we're still getting more power to the peddles. WHY IS THAT? Is it because we are now using our body-weight to drive down on those pedals...and/or is it because more muscles groups are being used???

As far as muscle groups....are more or different or additional muscles being used when we are out of the saddle?

I also notice it's easier to use lifting-up on the peddle (being clipped-in) while in the saddle....when out of the saddle lifting-up is a bit precarious, any thoughts on that??
 
Generally, when you get out of the saddle, you are switching from slow twitch to fast twitch and you're also switching from using fat as a fuel source to glycogen. So basically, you've gone from endurance to force and your fuel source has become limited.

Stay seated. If you can't, get better gearing. If you have a cadence sensor on your bike, you'd want to see at least 80rpms but really you'd want to aim for 90-100. If not, work on it because it'll make you a more efficient rider.
 
tsilcyc said:
Generally, when you get out of the saddle, you are switching from slow twitch to fast twitch and you're also switching from using fat as a fuel source to glycogen. So basically, you've gone from endurance to force and your fuel source has become limited.
Click to expand...

Dude....I like you and respect you, but your info is way off on this call.

There is a HUGE misconception about fuel usage. Airplanes have multiple fuel tanks and they have fuel-tank selectors with which the pilot selects from which tank they wish to exclusively draw. Our bodies do not have such an explicit selection: at ALL times we are sourcing from a combination of several sources: fat, glycogen in the blood, muscle & liver and ATP/Creatine-Phosphate.

At lower intensities we are generally using fat and the sustained/maintained blood-sugar (glycogen) in the blood. As the intensity of our exercise/exertion increases, we move to more "explosive fuels" to supply the demand...and at the most explosive fuel we go anaerobic n' all.

I will agree that out-of-the-saddle IS more powerful and so the intensity increases and we start into using more anaerobic fuel sources...but the amount of fat my decrease by proportion to glycogen, but overall it still goes up and at no time do we stop burning fat. It's quite erroneous to suggest we stop burning fat or switch off it.

In so far as fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch...I'm not so certain we're changing to different fibers as such, I think we just pick-up a bit more muscle groups in our quads and even core as we now are using our full body when out of the saddle. I even do a funky thing where I use my arms to pull-down and drive my body into the peddles, so I'm even involving my upper-body to some extent. But going from endurance to force....nahhh, I think we're just upping the ante' and dialing in some more muscle and greater intensity. I don't think it's dramatically altering the fuel-source or changing-up slow to fast-twitch in that capacity. Not to sound too picky, but are you just speculating or is your knowledge based on solid fact?




tsilcyc said:
Stay seated. If you can't, get better gearing. If you have a cadence sensor on your bike, you'd want to see at least 80rpms but really you'd want to aim for 90-100. If not, work on it because it'll make you a more efficient rider.
Click to expand...

I have a cadence meter and as Lance suggest, I keep it between 60-80. I can do my whole ride in the saddle no problem. The out of saddle is just to mix it up, hit more muscles, stretch the back and give a break to the crotch.

Actually, I already know a good amount about this stuff...I specifically wanted to hear more about the physiology between the in vs. out of the saddle. I know racers tend to pass people while out of the saddle and cruise in the saddle....just wanted a bit more insight about the two modalities.
 
I don't think it is that complicated. Out of the saddle for a sprint. Almost at the top of a hill. On long rides to stretch your leg muscles.
:beer2:
 
I agree with slow twitch fast twitch in and out of the saddle, I also agree that generally out of the saddle is for faster climbing. As for more muscle being used, I would say this comes down to increased cadence and pushing bigger gears on the uphill, out of the saddle. I would say mid range gears out of saddle for speed with more upper body muscle being used for stability. But if increased cadence is used/bigger gears, more upper and lower muscle would be used.

If seated at a lower cadence/lower gears up hill is used then an increase intensity would occur, thus an increase in endurance both lung and leg.

This is my take on it!
 
in the saddle

I not an expert rider and I think you guys are talking racing bikes as opposed to mtn bikes. In my experience riding mtn bikes the more you stay in the seat the better your efficiency. Now you can shift your weight from the front to the back of the seat for uphill and downhill riding so that changes the weight distribution on the rear tire. Different grips of the handle bars and extensions also helps with the uphill pull. I tend to get up off the saddle on downhill and sit way back using my thighs to grab hold. I get a better feel for the trail and shock absorption. Fast twitch etc no idea. Technique seems more important for efficiency. A little off topic but I enjoy bike talk.
 
You are more efficient in the saddle, but more powerful out of the saddle.

When you are in the saddle the bike is carrying the weight of your body. Sure, some of your weight is distributed through your arms and into the handlebars, and some into the peddles....but the gross majority of your body weight is being carried by the bike (through the seat). Once you get out of the saddle, your legs now have to work additionally to carry that load.

The advantage of being out of the saddle is that you can use your entire body's weight to drive down the peddles. I have to switch to my highest gearing to account for the difference...otherwise you step on the peddle and it just drops down. When going up hills, it feels like a Stair-Master...you just keep lifting your body up and driving the peddle down. You are using more muscles and in a different fashion, but the greater power comes at a price; your heart-rate will increase and you can only sustain being out of the saddle for just so-so long. The more you do it, the more your body will adapt and the longer you can stay out of the saddle.
 
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