I need your guys opinion on this. Yours too Steve.

N

nol3afclover

New member
Alright, so I just got back from the gym @ 7am after taking my MedGem test. For those who doesn't know what that is, it's a device that is hooked up to you and which you breathe into for about 10mins. It calculates via the oxygen levels in your breathing, you RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) which is how many calories your body burns when you're in a rested state (Sleep, on the couch etc). I took this test about 30lbs ago, and it was at 2400 calories. Today, 30lbs lighter I take the test again, and I'm now at 2267 calories. I found that to be pretty cool, since I expected a much lower number, but this pretty much verifies that I've sustained most my musclemass during my weight loss. In addition to the healthexpert who conducted the test, there was a huge dude whos also a trainer, I told him abouy my current workout schedule:

monday: upperbody weights
tues: 1 hr cardio only
wed: lower body weights
thurs: 1 hr cardio only
fri: upperbody weights
sat: 1 hr cardio only
sun: off

He said that I should be working weights alot more than than...He suggested something like this:

mon: lowerbody weights, followed by 15min run
tues: upperbody weights, followed by 15min run
wed: 20min run
thurs: lowerbody weights, followed by 15min run
fri: upperbody weights, followed by 15min run
sat: lowerbody weights, followed by 15min run
sun: off

he also suggested that instead of doing 12, 10, 8, 6, 12, 12 reps for each exercise, that I should use as heavy weights as possible, and only do 3-4 sets of 5-7 reps, and then take weight off, and do a 25 rep burner..He said by lowering the weights after my heavy sets, and then doing 25 reps, will burn do something to some certain fibers in my muscle...not sure exactly what....Steve? What you think about the above???

Also on my diet...I eat about 1800 calories per day and I've been sitting at 202lbs FOREVER now...I mean I look better, I feel better, but the scale's being a bitch....They also suggested that I should eat about 3000 calories per day to sustain my weight with my current exercises, and that I shouldnt go below 2000 calories....Could me eating around 1700-1800 calories per day have hindered me in losing weight on the scale??

Anyway, lots of info up there, would appreciate any comments or opinions!

Thanks
 
The trainer really can't make that recommendation. I mean, I'd love to know why he made it, to be honest. You didn't ask why?

The thing is, while losing weight, especially as you get close to your goal, weight lifting serves the purpose of preserving your muscle, right? Muscle maintenance doesn't take a whole heck of a lot, to be honest. So suggesting that you need to be lifting weights 5 times per week doesn't make much sense to me unless 2-3 of those sessions are going to be executed in a style that is conducive to strength/muscle maintenance and the remainder or less neurally demanding and more metabolically demanding, like complexes and circuits which would simply add more caloric expenditure.... but even there volume has to be watched/managed with a close eye.

Doing too much while dieting is very easy. Recoverability goes down while dieting.

In terms of the weight loss stall, when is the last time you took a break, meaning, when is the last time you ate maintenance intake?
 
Steve said:
The trainer really can't make that recommendation. I mean, I'd love to know why he made it, to be honest. You didn't ask why?

The thing is, while losing weight, especially as you get close to your goal, weight lifting serves the purpose of preserving your muscle, right? Muscle maintenance doesn't take a whole heck of a lot, to be honest. So suggesting that you need to be lifting weights 5 times per week doesn't make much sense to me unless 2-3 of those sessions are going to be executed in a style that is conducive to strength/muscle maintenance and the remainder or less neurally demanding and more metabolically demanding, like complexes and circuits which would simply add more caloric expenditure.... but even there volume has to be watched/managed with a close eye.

Doing too much while dieting is very easy. Recoverability goes down while dieting.

In terms of the weight loss stall, when is the last time you took a break, meaning, when is the last time you ate maintenance intake?
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IF my maintenance is truly around 3000, then I've never done that..Sure when I was fat I used to eat 4-5k per day...but I probably havent eaten more then 2100 calories tops for the past many months....Truth is, I'm afraid to eat too much, fear of gaining. What do you think about the lifting very heavy, with very few reps (5-7 reps) as opposed to what I'm doing now?
 
nol3afclover said:
IF my maintenance is truly around 3000, then I've never done that..Sure when I was fat I used to eat 4-5k per day...but I probably havent eaten more then 2100 calories tops for the past many months....
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Yea, that's a problem. I'd take a week long break if I were you. If you want to err on the conservative side, you can gradually work your way up to your maintenance over the course of the week. If you haven't taken a week off from exercise too in that many months, taking a break from that might be good too. If so, then call your maintenance 2500.

Reward your body.

Beating into submission over many months usually doesn't play out in your favor.

Truth is, I'm afraid to eat too much, fear of gaining.
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I've seen people actually lose more weight during weeks of maintenance eating, to be honest. I've seen that often, actually.

Even if you were to gain weight though, who cares. It's just weight. Primarily water and if you've been eating low carb, it's glycogen too. Don't sweat it. You aren't going to be gaining a ton of fat if any. Theoretically, if you're truly eating maintenance, you won't gain any. You'll just relieve your body from the stresses of dieting, which will more than likely play out in your favor.

What do you think about the lifting very heavy, with very few reps (5-7 reps) as opposed to what I'm doing now?
Click to expand...

I'm a fan of strength. Strength training (4-8 reps we'll call it here) tends to preserve muscle best for those who are candidates for losing it. Who are those? People who are relatively lean, for the most part.

When I'm dieting down, actually always as a matter of fact, I have a core component of heavy training in the 3-6 rep range and that's usually surrounded by some higher rep stuff on the smaller exercises.
 
Steve said:
Yea, that's a problem. I'd take a week long break if I were you. If you want to err on the conservative side, you can gradually work your way up to your maintenance over the course of the week. If you haven't taken a week off from exercise too in that many months, taking a break from that might be good too. If so, then call your maintenance 2500.

Reward your body.

Beating into submission over many months usually doesn't play out in your favor.



I've seen people actually lose more weight during weeks of maintenance eating, to be honest. I've seen that often, actually.

Even if you were to gain weight though, who cares. It's just weight. Primarily water and if you've been eating low carb, it's glycogen too. Don't sweat it. You aren't going to be gaining a ton of fat if any. Theoretically, if you're truly eating maintenance, you won't gain any. You'll just relieve your body from the stresses of dieting, which will more than likely play out in your favor.



I'm a fan of strength. Strength training (4-8 reps we'll call it here) tends to preserve muscle best for those who are candidates for losing it. Who are those? People who are relatively lean, for the most part.

When I'm dieting down, actually always as a matter of fact, I have a core component of heavy training in the 3-6 rep range and that's usually surrounded by some higher rep stuff on the smaller exercises.
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I'm going to try that. I'll eat about 2500-2700 calories per day and I'll keep doing my workouts since I just recently about 6 weeks ago REALLY started doing them regularly. Also, I'm doing to decrease the amount of reps from 12 to 4-8 with much heavier weights and see where it takes me. Once a week has passed, would you gradually decrease the calories down again? Or could I just start eating about 1800 at once?
 
nol3afclover said:
I'm going to try that. I'll eat about 2500-2700 calories per day and I'll keep doing my workouts since I just recently about 6 weeks ago REALLY started doing them regularly. Also, I'm doing to decrease the amount of reps from 12 to 4-8 with much heavier weights and see where it takes me. Once a week has passed, would you gradually decrease the calories down again? Or could I just start eating about 1800 at once?
Click to expand...

Two things here:

1. Don't try and do the same volume of work with heavier loads. That's a surefire way to overtrain yourself. Each person's recoverability is different, but in general, that strength work is in place to maintain muscle and as I said above, that doesn't take much.

If you're going to have 2 upper days, I'd make one day a heavy horizontal day and the other a heavy vertical day.

On the horizontal day you can do some heavy benching and rowing at a reduce volume.... think 2-3 sets of 4-6 reps. On that same day, you can work in some higher rep work for the vertical movements. Maybe 3 sets of 8-15 reps of pulldowns and DB overhead presses or whatever have you.

On the vertical day you can do some heavy pullups or pulldowns with some heavy overhead pressing. You can couple this with some lighter horizontal work.

Then throw some core work and possibly some fluff work for your arms in at the end.

Keep in mind though that the lower rep range, heavier weight training increases the risk of injury. Make sure you're ready for that sort of thing and don't go throwing a shit ton of weight on the bar just b/c you're supposed to go heavy. If this is the first time you've ever worked like this I'd be VERY conservative with the poundages and build your way up with small increments progressively.

2. I'd come down from maintenance in small increments, maybe 20% per week. See what becomes of it. So it might look something like this:

Week 1: 2700 (maintenance)
Week 2: 2200
Week 3: 1800

You could even be more conservative with it and drop it be 10% each week.

Whatever approach you take, really track stuff meticulously in terms of measurements and weight as this is the data you will use to determine what steps must be taken. Obviously, in the above example, if you are losing at 2200, you want to stay there until that stops working.
 
First workout with my revised plan is officially complete...

Dumbbell press: 3 sets of 5-7 reps @ 115-125 lbs (That may not be alot, but for me it was a handful from my usual 80lbs)

Dumbbell Bent-over Row: 3 sets of 5-7 reps @ 45-50 lbs (That may not be alot, but for me it was a handful from my usual 35lbs)

Concentration Curls: 3 sets of 5-7 reps @ 35-40 lbs (Now I KNOW this is featherweight, but I usually only do about 25lbs @ 10-12 reps)

Frontal raises: 3 sets of 5-7 reps @ 30 lbs (Usually bout 15 lbs)

Standing Dumbbell Triceps Extension: 3 sets of 5-7 reps @ 35 lbs (Usually at around 25 lbs)

Granted this workout took me about 30mins less than my usual workout...I feel ALOT tighter afterwards, already feel sore in my forearms and tightness in the bicep and chest. I KNOW i'll be sore tomorrow.....I havent been sore in weeks.
 
As I said above, I'd do a little of both. And I wouldn't do low reps, heavy weights on smaller, isolation exericses.

A typical workout for me might like something like this:

Bench 3x5
Row 3x5
Overhead Press 2x12
Pulldowns 2x12
Small stuff for arms and core in the 8-15 rep range
 
Steve said:
As I said above, I'd do a little of both. And I wouldn't do low reps, heavy weights on smaller, isolation exericses.

A typical workout for me might like something like this:

Bench 3x5
Row 3x5
Overhead Press 2x12
Pulldowns 2x12
Small stuff for arms and core in the 8-15 rep range
Click to expand...

Would you put concentration curls in the 'small stuff' category?

If so...you talkin bout something like this?

Upperbody day: 5-7 reps @ high weight dumbbell chest press
5-7 reps @ high weight Single Bent-Over Row
8-12 reps @ moderate weight Concentration Curls
12 reps @ moderate weight Shoulder Raises
12 reps @ moderate weight Triceps Kickbacks

??
 
nol3afclover said:
Would you put concentration curls in the 'small stuff' category?
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Any sort of curl is going to be isolation. You are isolating your biceps. And yes, I consider that small stuff b/c it's really not needed. Your bis and tris are getting his on your pressing and pulling exercises. But I know everyone is going to do them anyhow. I do myself.

If so...you talkin bout something like this?

Upperbody day: 5-7 reps @ high weight dumbbell chest press
5-7 reps @ high weight Single Bent-Over Row
8-12 reps @ moderate weight Concentration Curls
12 reps @ moderate weight Shoulder Raises
12 reps @ moderate weight Triceps Kickbacks
Click to expand...

You're missing one core component, which isn't necessarily required.... but it's what I like.

Suppose you have two upper body days per week. One of those days is going to be heavy horizontal / light vertical. The second upper body day is going to be heavy vertical / light horizontal.

Horizontal = presses and rows
Vertical = overhead presses and pulldowns/pullups

Heavy = 4-6 reps or whatever
Light = 8-15 reps or whatever

What you're doing above is heavy horizontal and small stuff.

I divide my legs in much the same way if I'm hitting them twice per week. One day will be quad dominant and the next will be posteriorly dominant.
 
Beat Diet Plateau

Try eating the high end of maintance and weigh your self dail till you seee a 3 to 5 lb gain, then go back to your suggested cal intake for weight loss till you lose the gain. repeat for 4 to 6 weeks then resume your weight loss plan. This should break the plateau, give you more enjoyment from your food, (less deprivation) and also give you an idea how much cal/day you can consume before you start gaining so that you can eat the most calories possibe while still losing. That insures against your body doing the starvation route.
 
mtnstrawberry said:
Try eating the high end of maintance and weigh your self dail till you seee a 3 to 5 lb gain, then go back to your suggested cal intake for weight loss till you lose the gain. repeat for 4 to 6 weeks then resume your weight loss plan. This should break the plateau, give you more enjoyment from your food, (less deprivation) and also give you an idea how much cal/day you can consume before you start gaining so that you can eat the most calories possibe while still losing. That insures against your body doing the starvation route.
Click to expand...

I think your suggesting that one should yo-yo their weight for 4-6 weeks from +5 to -5. I don't really see how thats more beneficial than just eating at maintenace level for an extended period of time.
 
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