I must be an idiot because i still dont get this...

M_Marie

M_Marie

New member
A little frustrated at this point. First and foremost, I want to throw out there that I have mentioned my thoughts on this before and my journal and gotten some feedback regarding it… so if you are someone who has given me feedback… do not take offense… I am just looking for more answers and thoughts on this particular situation.

1) I am 5’2” 124-128 lbs. This is where I get frustrated… I range from 124-128 weekly.
2) I have not gone up or down from this weight since July 1st of this year….. this is despite my working out 5-6 days a week and still watching my diet. I eat approx 1500-1600 calories a day. This is not a low estimate.. its about right on. I keep track of my food in a food journal and track what I eat every day.
3) I do lift weights. I also do cardio….. NOTHING IS CHANGING. My 1500-1600 calories intake a day are without subtracting what I have burned… that is food intake period.

What am I doing wrong… or right I guess? I am seeing more tone in my body… I am seeing things tighten up… so there is progress being made… but id really like to cut some more fat and get down to about 115 if possible….. and I am trying to figure out how to go about doing this. Does this mean put weight training on hold for a bit? I don’t know if I should cut more calories… I just am lost. I am not knowledgeable enough to figure this out alone. I have heard you cannot lose weight and build muscle at the same time… is this true? The personal trainer at my gym told me that was not true. So many different opinions given…and my head is spinning.

Steve has given a lot of assistance in this… and for that I am thankful….. I just cant get a handle on this. I really want to be successful and I really am willing to work my butt off to get where I need to be….

I have been running 5K races lately… a lot of cardio etc. I was so frustrated this weekend because I ran 12 miles between Friday and sat. Sunday morning… I gained 4 lbs since the previous Thursday… WHAT IN THE WORLD….. I was def. in calorie deficit… what gives?


Ideas? Thoughts?
 
Ok, here are my thoughts. Keep in mind that at your weight (which is pretty close to a "normal" weight), it's going to be harder and harder to drop those last few pounds w/out being really strict.

I eat approx 1500-1600 calories a day. This is not a low estimate.. its about right on.
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Based an average of 14 cals per pound of body weight for an active woman, I come up with a maintenance figure of 1736 calories per day. So if you're eating 1600 calories, you're only eating 136 below your maintenance. So when you say "approx" ... you could be easily eating +100 calories as you could be -100 calories, right? If you're not measuring EVERYTHING precisely, I think it would be very very very easy to wipe out that 136 calorie deficit.

Ok, so .. here's what I'm thinking:

Even if you are hitting 1600 calories exactly, every single day w/out any exceptions, you're looking at 26 days to lose 1 lb, at a daily deficit of 136 calories (3500 calories / 136 calories per day = 25.7 days). Given even normal monthly fluctuations in water weight, sodium content, even hormonal changes, I could see it looking like you're not losing anything over a period of several months, at that rate.

Overtraining will cause your body to hold on to fluids and even fats. If you keep ramping up and ramping up and ramping up your exercise - running miles and miles - you might be sabotaging your weight loss. You're probably getting fitter - but you're not setting things up for a drop in weight.

Quitting weight training will be counter productive as you'll just set yourself up to lose lean muscle mass if you're in a calorie deficit (which as I mentioned above, might not be true).

What are you doing for weight lifting? Are you doing intense, full body work, with heavy weights, or is your trainer following the "girl weights" program and having you do light weights with a zillion reps? To get the maximum benefit, you should be doing the first, and not the second.

Have you looked carefully at your sodium intake and your macros? Are you getting enough protein to sustain muscle and/or build muscle? Those weekly fluctuations sound like sodium/fluid/water retention to me.

It is EXTREMELY hard to build muscle (I'd even go so far as to say impossible) while in a calorie deficit unless you are already badly out of shape or extremely overweight. Since you're neither of those, then it's highly unlikely that you're building muscle in a calorie deficit. Your trainer is dead wrong about this.

If it were me, what I'd do is try cutting your calories back to 1200 or 1300 a day, make sure you're getting 120g of protein per day, make sure you're not exceeding 2000mg of sodium per day, and moderate your working out to a 2x - 3x per week full body weight routine, plus maybe 2 or 3 days of cardio (moderate - 30 min sessions, not 12 mile weekends! :) ).

Oh, and make sure you're getting enough water.
 
Good thoughts Kara and you may be dead on about the calories. when i give the "about" numbers... sometimes when i stop and grab something quick for lunch maybe and not have the exact measured calories.
Protein has been something i am very much increasing while sugar is decreasing due to my doctor suspecting i am hypoglcemic. She wants me to ramp up the protein and lower sugar/carb intake.


I think part of the problem is the way i ate the last 7 months worked for all the weightloss ive had... and now i might be in a different bracket and need to adjust.


I feel hungry often though if i dont eat enough.... maybe i need to find more filling foods to eat... i know eggs are filling...... chicken maybe.

the weight training is a tough one for me. I have raised the weights recently due to muscle gain i have had and now the ability to lift more. I typically do two sets of 15..... or sometimes 2 sets of 12. This may not technically be appropriate weight lifting techniques.... the is typically what i have done since ive started this new lifestyle.

Open to ideas though Kara... you seem to give pretty good direction!

3 months and just maintenece though shows me i need some input on what i can do to improve.
 
Bravo to Kara... I was about to reply without reading her response and than stopped myself. After reading it, she literally took the words right out of my mouth.

Almost always I start someone out on 12 calories per pound. You're just over that. Things aren't changing b/c you're eating what could be very close to your maintenance.

As Kara suggested, couple the above with the fact that you're probably holding onto fluids. The rate of fat loss such a small deficit like the one you're running could very easily be masked by fluid weight. Put differently, you could be losing fractions of a pound each month and never realize it b/c the scale measures a whole lot more than fat alone.

Often times 10 calories per pound is the sweet spot women in your shoes find. That would put you at about 1300 calories.

When you're at this point, it's very important to keep in mind the lack of wiggle room. By that, I mean this:

Someone who can get away with eating 2500 calories and still lose weight can easily get in the essentials (adequate protein, healthy fats, fiber, etc) and still eat a lot of other "stuff."

Someone who needs to drop to something like 1300 calories doesn't have that cushion. If they eat a moderate level of "other stuff" they'll quickly eat into their calorie allotment leaving no room to fit the essentials.

Let's think of it numerically...

Calorie goal is 1300.

1 gram of protein provides us 4 calories
1 gram of carbohydrate provides us 4 calories
1 gram of fat provides us 9 calories
1 gram of alcohol provides us 7 calories

Knowing this, it's simply a matter of filling in the calorie goal with the appropriate level of nutrients. Protein is arguably most important so let's start with that.

1 - 1.5 grams of protein per pound of goal weight is ideal. Let's call your goal weight 120 lbs for shits and giggles. That puts are protein goal at 150 or thereabouts.

150 grams of protein = 600 calories. So of the 1300, we're left with 700 calories to "fill."

Next is fats. 25% of calories from fat is a decent target. That's 325 calories which is equivalent to 36 grams of fat.

This leaves us with 375 calories to fill. You could get away with filling entirely with carbs, which only comes out to be just shy of 100 grams.

As you can see, there's no room to wiggle.... not much at least.

And what's comprising your protein, fats and carbs is obviously important too.

Not to mention how your workout is structured might be a bit off base too. Not all weight training is created equal. I'm rambling and I don't want you to miss my point. So are you seeing what Kara and I are saying?

Let's hear your questions.
 
Oh, and I also think it's important to ask yourself why reaching 115 is so critical? Are you a wrestler trying to make a weight class? :p

If you follow "some plan" that causes changes in the mirror that you're absolutely in love with... yet the scale is rising... are you going to stop? And if so, why?
 
alright so... today


Breakfast

1 medium macintosh apple( 80 cal ?)
2 slices light wheat toast ( 70 cal) 3g protein, 2 tbsp reduced fat chunky peanut butter (180 cal) 7g protein
2 cups of coffee with sugar free cream w/ splenda (60 cal total)

Lunch
2 servings of broccoli cuts ( 40 cal), 4g protein
chunk light Tuna... in the nude (160 cal) 36g protein
7 reduced fat triscut crackers ( 120 cal) 3g protein


so i am up to 710 calories for the day at 1:00pm and 53g of protein.

so if i am to have approx 1300 calories for the day in order to be in a deficit.... that means i have 590 calories yet i can have today?

I am trying to figure out where i should be cutting my calories. My morning coffee is my vice... it gets me moving... but what can i cut?


and the 1300 calories... would that be flat out or is this considering i worked out today. on a day when i work out and an off day... do i still try to consume a total of 1300 calories and not factor in the work out and what i burned?

Thanks so much Steve and Kara for input so far... this does make sense
 
M_Marie said:
alright so... today


Breakfast

1 medium macintosh apple( 80 cal ?)
2 slices light wheat toast ( 70 cal) 3g protein, 2 tbsp reduced fat chunky peanut butter (180 cal) 7g protein
2 cups of coffee with sugar free cream w/ splenda (60 cal total)

Lunch
2 servings of broccoli cuts ( 40 cal), 4g protein
chunk light Tuna... in the nude (160 cal) 36g protein
7 reduced fat triscut crackers ( 120 cal) 3g protein


so i am up to 710 calories for the day at 1:00pm and 53g of protein.

so if i am to have approx 1300 calories for the day in order to be in a deficit.... that means i have 590 calories yet i can have today?

I am trying to figure out where i should be cutting my calories. My morning coffee is my vice... it gets me moving... but what can i cut?


and the 1300 calories... would that be flat out or is this considering i worked out today. on a day when i work out and an off day... do i still try to consume a total of 1300 calories and not factor in the work out and what i burned?

Thanks so much Steve and Kara for input so far... this does make sense
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I'd wipe the slate clean on the food front and think in reverse. Instead of focusing on what foods you currently eat... focus on meeting the macronutrient goals I outlined above.

So for protein, think in terms of how much you need (approx. 150 grams). Then think, "Okay, I know I need about 150 grams of protein and I'm shooting for 5 meals per day. So I need to fit about 30 grams of protein in each meal."

You don't need to be terribly rigid with this... for instance if you get 20 in one meal and 40 in another... so be it. But I'm trying to frame your way of thinking about this a bit differently.

The 1300 is total. Don't worry about what you're spending in terms of exercise. You want to take in 1300 per day. You can start worrying about making cals higher on training days vs. non-training days at a later point. For now, I don't think it's necessary.
 
I know that for me, the "wiggle room" issue is a big one. For a loooong time, because I started at such a high weight, I was able to lose easily and fast at 1800 calories or more.

Now, I have to be really really careful to hit 1600 or less, and I can see that dropping to 1400 or less very soon. And that means that I can't be slapdash about my food tracking.

Here's what I eat each day:

Breakfast: greek yogurt
Snack: Apple & lowfat string cheese
Lunch: tuna or chicken salad on whole grain bread, carrots
Snack: boiled egg and low sodium V8
Post workout: 1 scoop protein powder
Dinner: some kind of lean protein and veg - try to keep this around 500-600 cals

That puts me at around 1460 cals and 120g protein almost exactly.

If I eat this spot on every day, I will lose weight. The problem for me is that I've gotten used to having some flexibility there and I tend to throw in a bite of something here and a bite of something there and think it's "ok" ... because it has been in the past.

One of the things that I'm working on this week for myself is to stick to this plan EXACTLY and not deviate.

Combining sticking to this plan with the exercise that I'm already doing WILL work. I know it will. I just need to get my s**t together and do it. :)

So I'm thinking that you and I are in the same place - maybe not with the exact numbers but with buckling down and doing it. Being specific. Getting back into the habit of being accountable. Making sure that I don't make excuses and allow variations. :)
 
Just saw your post. You can see above what I'm eating ... but here are just a few thoughts on your plan:

1 medium macintosh apple( 80 cal ?)
2 slices light wheat toast ( 70 cal) 3g protein, 2 tbsp reduced fat chunky peanut butter (180 cal) 7g protein
2 cups of coffee with sugar free cream w/ splenda (60 cal total)
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2 pieces of toast is a lot, IMO. That's a lot of carbs and not a lot of protein, especially when combined with an apple. I'd ditch either the apple or the toast. Also, keep in mind that a "medium" apple is a lot smaller than you think. Edited: A medium apple is 150g and is 85 calories. So if your apple is larger than that, you could be eating a lot more calories. :)

2 servings of broccoli cuts ( 40 cal), 4g protein
chunk light Tuna... in the nude (160 cal) 36g protein
7 reduced fat triscut crackers ( 120 cal) 3g protein
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Here's where I'd add a slice of bread and ditch the Triscuits. I buy whole grain protein enriched bread from Arnold - 7g protein per slice.

I do what Steve says and start with protein, because I Know that's the macro I need the most of. So I plan my meals around my protein source ... breakfast is greek yogurt, lunch is tuna or chicken, dinner is protein and veg, etc. Then I fill in around that with the carbs that I can have - fruit, bread, whatever.
 
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alright. This all makes sense..... finding High protein items that are not high in calories is a bit hard for me though... any thoughts on that....

peanut butter has alot of fat and cals in it
nuts... same idea....

i know chicken is good, tuna,


I do have EAS vanilla protein powder in which one scoop is 120 calories and 23g protein ( low sugar too... only 1g per scoop) You suggest using a scoop of this in some water as a "small meal" through out the day?

what else?
 
EAS has a lot of carb and cholesterol. It's not my favorite. Steve got me using the Syntrax powders, which I really like. 90 cals for 23g of protein (or thereabouts).

Low fat diary is a GREAT source of protein. I know I harp on Greek yogurt a lot, but it is a good source. My 8oz cup of Greek yogurt every morning has 17g of protein for 130 cals. You can also try low fat cottage cheese - another great source of protein.

Eggs and egg whites, excellent source.

Chicken, tuna, salmon, of course.
 
I consider protein more of a source of fat than a source of protein... but you're right. It does contain protein.

Protein is what most struggle with and I find the solution to the struggle is preparing foods in advance.

Good sources of protein include:

chicken/turkey breast, lean ground beef, lean cuts of steak, fish, pork tenderloin, bison, powder, low/no fat dairy (yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, etc), eggs, and on and on it goes.

Some sources of protein are easy. Most require prep. And that's why I highly suggest cooking your meats in advance. I cook meats twice per week, then I weigh them out, and bag them in serving sizes in the fridge. That way my protein is simply a matter of grabbing a baggy from the fridge and reheating.

Powder is fine if you truly find you're having trouble meeting your protein requirements. That said, I'd much sooner see you get your protein from whole food sources. Liquids tend not to satiate like whole foods do and when you're already small (meaning you have a limited amount of cals you can eat), satiety is a major concern.
 
Kara... do you not find yourself hungry throughout the day?
I find that after dinner time, i have gotten into the habit of feeling like i "need" a snack... so i have a granola bar.... and those are 90 cal and pretty much just crap..... quaker granola bars have like a gram of protein and nothing but sugar and carbs... or i want coffee..... at night after dinner. That is a trouble time for me.


I also started the end of last week doing my workouts in the morning again.... ive found i watch my food a little better if i worked out at the beginning of the day..... just because then i cant make the excuse of i will work this off later!!

i am pretty good about not eating a bunch of crap, and the proof of that is in my maintanence.... but i think i just feel like the number isnt moving so i must not be working hard enough.

and Steve, to answer your question.... part of the reason i want to try to hit 120-115 is because that is in my opinion a reasonable weight for me.... but also because that was my goal and if i drop off and "settle for 125-128... i feel like i failed. And that may be stupid or sound stupid.... but i have created this sense of fullfillment out of making and meeting goals for myself.... and now is the first time its gotten tough for me to make these goals and to me its almost a challenge now.

But i also want to be toned and be in shape to do these runs that i participate in... and its addicting! I placed for the very first time in ANYTHING last weekend... that was a rush... it was exciting... and so i also want to just be in shape and healthy all around.....

I think if the fat was gone and i wasnt losing weight i would be cool with that..... but i still see those trouble spots so im not content with 128 for now.


does this make sense? Its not " just a number" obsession... Im just not happy with what i see yet. Happier... yes. happy.... not quite.

2 pieces of toast is a lot, IMO. That's a lot of carbs and not a lot of protein, especially when combined with an apple. I'd ditch either the apple or the toast. Also, keep in mind that a "medium" apple is a lot smaller than you think. Edited: A medium apple is 150g and is 85 calories. So if your apple is larger than that, you could be eating a lot more calories. :)


Here's where I'd add a slice of bread and ditch the Triscuits. I buy whole grain protein enriched bread from Arnold - 7g protein per slice.

I do what Steve says and start with protein, because I Know that's the macro I need the most of. So I plan my meals around my protein source ... breakfast is greek yogurt, lunch is tuna or chicken, dinner is protein and veg, etc. Then I fill in around that with the carbs that I can have - fruit, bread, whatever.[/QUOTE]
 
Steve said:
I consider protein more of a source of fat than a source of protein... but you're right. It does contain protein.

Protein is what most struggle with and I find the solution to the struggle is preparing foods in advance.

Good sources of protein include:

chicken/turkey breast, lean ground beef, lean cuts of steak, fish, pork tenderloin, bison, powder, low/no fat dairy (yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, etc), eggs, and on and on it goes.

Some sources of protein are easy. Most require prep. And that's why I highly suggest cooking your meats in advance. I cook meats twice per week, then I weigh them out, and bag them in serving sizes in the fridge. That way my protein is simply a matter of grabbing a baggy from the fridge and reheating.

Powder is fine if you truly find you're having trouble meeting your protein requirements. That said, I'd much sooner see you get your protein from whole food sources. Liquids tend not to satiate like whole foods do and when you're already small (meaning you have a limited amount of cals you can eat), satiety is a major concern.
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Thanks for that info! This is very helpful! How do you figure out how many calories are in the "bagged meat"? is it a general idea? I know at least the meat i buy, there normally isnt calorie info on the package....
 
I'm not sure what you mean by bagged meat but I find my nutrition information off of this website:



But most use some other system that allows you to log what you've eaten... something like or .

And if you don't have a food scale yet... get one!
 
your individual baggies with meat in them or whatever you called them... thats what i meant. I know you weigh it out and stuff... but i wasnt sure how you knew what that particular meat was worth in calories....

im sure there is a generic idea of how many calories chicken or pork or beef have in it.
 
M_Marie said:
Kara... do you not find yourself hungry throughout the day?
I find that after dinner time, i have gotten into the habit of feeling like i "need" a snack... so i have a granola bar....
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Yea, those are crap.

Couple of comments...

For starters, it could be your environment that's causing you to eat. It's why the majority of America is fat. Even though they're not truly hungry... in the evening when it's time to unwind from a long day... food is part of the unwinding process.

That's why most Americans overeat their calories in the PM hours.

Secondly, by tweaking your nutrition you'll be surprised how much fuller you'll feel. Adequate protein alone goes a long way in the satiation process. And what I forgot to mention above is the fact that you should be loading up on fibrous veggies. Fiber helps satiety, these veggies don't pack a big caloric punch, and they expand your stomach which helps send full signals to the brain.

That's why I always keep a large dose of fresh, fibrous veggies on hand.

And 1-2 pieces of fruit per day will do you some good too.

i am pretty good about not eating a bunch of crap, and the proof of that is in my maintanence.... but i think i just feel like the number isnt moving so i must not be working hard enough.
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Yea, you need to banish that mentality right now. That's the trouble many women find themselves in. They are eating too many calories but believe their lack of progress stems from not working hard enough so they over-do it on the exercise front.

2-3 days of good strength training and 3-5 days of "cardio" is typically enough. If you're finding that's not working... I'd look to see if something is off with your nutrition long before I worried about working hard enough or not.

This isn't always the case, but you seem to be a hard worker in my mind so I doubt it's your problem.

and Steve, to answer your question.... part of the reason i want to try to hit 120-115 is because that is in my opinion a reasonable weight for me.... but also because that was my goal and if i drop off and "settle for 125-128... i feel like i failed. And that may be stupid or sound stupid.... but i have created this sense of fullfillment out of making and meeting goals for myself.... and now is the first time its gotten tough for me to make these goals and to me its almost a challenge now.
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I get that. But I'm suggesting that weight goals are pretty much pointless. Body composition goals are far superior. Who cares what you weigh if you have a slamming body, have improved performance, feel great, etc.

Replacing a "goofy" goal with a "refined" goal should make you feel like a failure. It should make you feel smart. It's part of the learning process.
 
M_Marie said:
your individual baggies with meat in them or whatever you called them... thats what i meant. I know you weigh it out and stuff... but i wasnt sure how you knew what that particular meat was worth in calories....

im sure there is a generic idea of how many calories chicken or pork or beef have in it.
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Go to the link I gave you above. You can type in chicken breast and than enter the number of ounces or grams you have and it spits out how many calories, grams of protein, fat, etc.

Truthfully, I don't weigh or track my foods anymore. I have enough of a handle on my nutrition that it's simply not necessary. I know how many grams of protein I need and that's all I focus on. If I want to gain from where I am, I eat a little more. If I want to lose from where I am, I eat a little less.
 
I think a scale is a necessary evil for the time being.

One ounce of almost any meat will contain between 7 and 8 grams of
protein. With that knowledge, it's pretty easy to figure things out.
 
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