I am a beginner to weight lifting and have just joined a gym. I really am having a hard time figuring out how much weight to lift for each exercise. ACSM recommends beginners to do 12-15 reps for each exercise, So as a beginner how am I supposed to know if Im using the right weight for the 12-15 rep range?
How Do I Know How Much Weight To Lift?
- Thread starter MrHagerty
- Start date
That all depends on your goals. You need to operate off of your 1rm(1 rep max). If your max bench for one rep is 100 lbs, that's your 1 rep max, but you don't want to lift 100 lbs all the time. For "Heavy" sets, you would lift 90%(90lbs) of your 1rm for 5 sets of 5 reps. For a "meduim" set, you would lift 70%(70lbs) of your 1rm for 3 sets of 7-9 reps. You may use different rep ranges, but you should always operate off of your 1 rep max percentage.
Hagerty
This is an important question, but one whose answer will seem clear after you are explained the concept
This excerpt from my book might help explain it to you and help make it clear ..
How Much Weight Should I Lift?
This is a common question, but the answer is actually very simple.
Do not worry about some preconceived idea of how much weight you should be using for exercise, your body will tell you the proper amount to use.
Over the last half century, much research has been done to determine the optimum number of repetitions of an exercise needed to attain a certain goal.
A repetition is a single performance of an exercise.
For example, if you were asked to do ten (10) sit-ups, that would be called 10 repetitions.
In exercise jargon, the word repetition is often abbreviated to “reps”.
Without boring you with tons of references and study results, I will tell you that general consensus is as follows …
4-6 repetitions are best suited for building maximum power.
6-8 repetitions are good for building strength and size.
8-12 repetitions combine both size and strength gains with some endurance benefit.
15-20+ repetitions are best for endurance and toning.
These guidelines are approximate ranges that have been shown over time to be best suited for reaching specific goals.
Obviously some overlap and genetic variation between individuals will cause different people to see varied results, but this general guide holds true for most people.
Basically, if you are lifting heavy weights for fewer than 6 repetitions you will be developing brute strength.
Conversely, if you lift a lighter weight 15 times or more, you will develop endurance and help tone the muscle with less increase in strength or fiber size.
You will find professional bodybuilders vary their routines throughout the year between heavy weight/low repetitions and medium weight/moderate repetitions so they can fully develop all their muscle fibers in different ways.
But for non-professional athletes such as ourselves, we need not worry about getting this fancy and specialized.
How does this repetition information apply to those of us looking for the most effective way to train past 40?
We should keep two factors in mind …
With age, we must be more careful to protect joints, cartilage, and tendons.
As explained earlier, we lose Fast Twitch muscle fibers much quicker than Slow Twitch fibers as we age.
Fast Twitch fibers you will recall are responsible for strength, speed, and much of your muscle mass that affects your Basal Metabolic Rate.
Older individuals may not have any problem taking long slow walks around the neighborhood, but activities that require strength and speed such as flipping mattresses or getting up from a couch become more difficult with age.
Taking both of these factors into consideration, it turns out 8-12 repetitions is the “sweet spot” target range for us when designing a weight training program.
In fact, we will be incorporating one higher repetition set of 15-20 reps as a “warm up” set when we begin each new exercise.
After that, our “working sets” will normally be in the 8-12 range.
This examination of repetitions leads us to the answer for our original question of “How Much Weight Should I Lift?”
We can now answer that question properly.
The amount of weight you select to lift for each exercise should be enough that you are able to complete 10 repetitions before reaching failure.
We define “failure” as the point where you can not perform one more repetition with proper form.
In actual practice this means if the weight is so heavy you can’t lift it more than 5-6 times, you are using too much weight.
On the other hand, if you zoom right thru 12, 13, 14, 15 repetitions and you could still do plenty more, the weight is too light.
Why does this method work for proper weight selection?
By using a weight you can lift 10 times before approaching failure, you are not placing too much strain on the supporting structure of the joints and connective tissue as would be the case if you were trying to hoist much heavier poundage for fewer reps.
Ten is also the middle of our target range of 8-12 repetitions for optimally adding both strength and lean muscle tissue.
This is an important question, but one whose answer will seem clear after you are explained the concept
This excerpt from my book might help explain it to you and help make it clear ..
How Much Weight Should I Lift?
This is a common question, but the answer is actually very simple.
Do not worry about some preconceived idea of how much weight you should be using for exercise, your body will tell you the proper amount to use.
Over the last half century, much research has been done to determine the optimum number of repetitions of an exercise needed to attain a certain goal.
A repetition is a single performance of an exercise.
For example, if you were asked to do ten (10) sit-ups, that would be called 10 repetitions.
In exercise jargon, the word repetition is often abbreviated to “reps”.
Without boring you with tons of references and study results, I will tell you that general consensus is as follows …
4-6 repetitions are best suited for building maximum power.
6-8 repetitions are good for building strength and size.
8-12 repetitions combine both size and strength gains with some endurance benefit.
15-20+ repetitions are best for endurance and toning.
These guidelines are approximate ranges that have been shown over time to be best suited for reaching specific goals.
Obviously some overlap and genetic variation between individuals will cause different people to see varied results, but this general guide holds true for most people.
Basically, if you are lifting heavy weights for fewer than 6 repetitions you will be developing brute strength.
Conversely, if you lift a lighter weight 15 times or more, you will develop endurance and help tone the muscle with less increase in strength or fiber size.
You will find professional bodybuilders vary their routines throughout the year between heavy weight/low repetitions and medium weight/moderate repetitions so they can fully develop all their muscle fibers in different ways.
But for non-professional athletes such as ourselves, we need not worry about getting this fancy and specialized.
How does this repetition information apply to those of us looking for the most effective way to train past 40?
We should keep two factors in mind …
With age, we must be more careful to protect joints, cartilage, and tendons.
As explained earlier, we lose Fast Twitch muscle fibers much quicker than Slow Twitch fibers as we age.
Fast Twitch fibers you will recall are responsible for strength, speed, and much of your muscle mass that affects your Basal Metabolic Rate.
Older individuals may not have any problem taking long slow walks around the neighborhood, but activities that require strength and speed such as flipping mattresses or getting up from a couch become more difficult with age.
Taking both of these factors into consideration, it turns out 8-12 repetitions is the “sweet spot” target range for us when designing a weight training program.
In fact, we will be incorporating one higher repetition set of 15-20 reps as a “warm up” set when we begin each new exercise.
After that, our “working sets” will normally be in the 8-12 range.
This examination of repetitions leads us to the answer for our original question of “How Much Weight Should I Lift?”
We can now answer that question properly.
The amount of weight you select to lift for each exercise should be enough that you are able to complete 10 repetitions before reaching failure.
We define “failure” as the point where you can not perform one more repetition with proper form.
In actual practice this means if the weight is so heavy you can’t lift it more than 5-6 times, you are using too much weight.
On the other hand, if you zoom right thru 12, 13, 14, 15 repetitions and you could still do plenty more, the weight is too light.
Why does this method work for proper weight selection?
By using a weight you can lift 10 times before approaching failure, you are not placing too much strain on the supporting structure of the joints and connective tissue as would be the case if you were trying to hoist much heavier poundage for fewer reps.
Ten is also the middle of our target range of 8-12 repetitions for optimally adding both strength and lean muscle tissue.
Last edited by a moderator:
I should add --- this explanation from the book was targeted for Fitness after age 40, but it is still a good training guideline for any age.
Of course if your goal is hardcore bodybuilding, you must incorporate some advanced techniques but I am 50 and these are the guidelines I follow ....
Of course if your goal is hardcore bodybuilding, you must incorporate some advanced techniques but I am 50 and these are the guidelines I follow ....
Last edited by a moderator:
As much as I'd love to give you a straight answer, there are no set numbers of anything to start at (ie if I told you to bench press 20kg, squat 30kg and deadlift 40kg as standard starting weights, I'd be doing you a disservice), but you can test what weights are appropriate to start with, so I hope this'll help answer your question. First things first, be conservative with the weights you choose. As a general rule, technique comes before weight and even before reps, especially for a beginner (the 12-15 rep range is recommended so that you can get a lot of practice in and nail your technique -- if you aren't focusing on technique, then you're just doing 12-15 reps of bad habits). So, all things being considered, here's how I would recommend figuring out your starting weights:
1) Pick the lightest weight you can practically use for an exercise. This will often be bodyweight (or even assisted), an empty barbell, the little 1kg dumbbells, or the first plate on a machine.
2) Perform a set, focusing on your key technique points.
This set could end a few ways:
a) You find yourself struggling to maintain technique (you're not just being lazy with technique, but you're actively trying and can't maintain technique).
b) You're generally able to maintain technique, but reach the point of failure before you reach 12 reps.
c) You complete 12 reps with good technique but are not sure that you could do much more.
d) You complete 12 reps with good technique and could easily do at least 2 more.
If a) or b) happen, complete your current rep (only if it's safe to do), and then finish the set immediately. Take note of which rep in the set this occurred at. Reduce that number by 2, and that's how many reps you'll be doing with that weight as your working weight. So, if you get to 9 reps and can't keep your chest up any longer on an exercise, and this is the lightest practical weight you can use, then next time you train, you'll be doing working sets with that weight for 7 reps. Add 1 rep/set each workout (provided the final rep was good on the last workout) until you're up to 15 reps.
If c) happens, that's your starting weight right there. Perform sets of 12 reps with the weight, and add 1 rep/set each workout (provided the final rep was good on the last workout) until you're up to 15 reps.
If d) happens, then increase the weight slightly. Rest a couple minutes and then do another set with the new weight. Rinse and repeat until c) happens. If after adding weight, a) or b) happens, go back to the last weight you used before it happened, and that's you're starting weight. You know the drill from there.
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Goldfish has most of this covered. 12 - 15 is a good starting rep range for weight-lifting because it will give you chance to practice the movements and you won't be using excessive weight if doing this many reps. This does only help if you have good form and that has to come first.
There is no one size fits all on starting reps. I started weights first time as a child of 13 or 14 doing the same 10 exercises 3 times a week for a couple of years, I gained little muscle etc. because you need variation and I didn't know that but I knew techniques by the end. I was using just the bar for a lot of it and that was a 20lb 1 inch bar too so the lightest one you would see in gyms but under the watchful eye of my stepfather I perfected every movement before being allowed to add weight.
When I came back to it years later I went back to the bar alone for many movements, but only for a week or so when I realised that my body remembered the movements.
There are far fewer injuries in people who start steady and build up than those in a hurry. You can go insane once you are used to what you are doing and can be safe doing things others would deem crazy, but initially go easy.
There is no one size fits all on starting reps. I started weights first time as a child of 13 or 14 doing the same 10 exercises 3 times a week for a couple of years, I gained little muscle etc. because you need variation and I didn't know that but I knew techniques by the end. I was using just the bar for a lot of it and that was a 20lb 1 inch bar too so the lightest one you would see in gyms but under the watchful eye of my stepfather I perfected every movement before being allowed to add weight.
When I came back to it years later I went back to the bar alone for many movements, but only for a week or so when I realised that my body remembered the movements.
There are far fewer injuries in people who start steady and build up than those in a hurry. You can go insane once you are used to what you are doing and can be safe doing things others would deem crazy, but initially go easy.
Michael Spitzer
How can I put this kindly? As a 40 year old who has seen many my age and way above doing some incredible things including a 58 year old biathlete, a 61 year old breaking the overhead dumbbell press world record before my eyes, and of course knowing of people like Lou Ferrigno who was at his most muscular ever at an age where most have retired I would ask you to stop being so downright condescending.
I have produced enough stats about age related health issues etc. to know now that most of them aren't age related but lifestyle driven. I wish there was money in telling truths like this but there isn't so I produced statistically correct but fundamentally flawed data showing what happens to aging bodies that aren't looked after as if that is inevitable regardless.
I have as much stamina as I ever had, more high weight endurance than ever, more muscle mass than ever, nearly as much power as my best ever despite having neglected this for most of the last year and a half. What I have is the result of the training I have done. Despite numerous injuries from my youth I have full mobility even in previously damaged joints and know this can be maintained through continuous movement.
If people are inactive and start training late in life it is the inactivity not their age that is to be overcome, genuine science has proven this many times. Age is one of the least important factors in training, personal history is far more relevant.
Rant over, I have a zimmer frame to catch to the pensioners bus.
How can I put this kindly? As a 40 year old who has seen many my age and way above doing some incredible things including a 58 year old biathlete, a 61 year old breaking the overhead dumbbell press world record before my eyes, and of course knowing of people like Lou Ferrigno who was at his most muscular ever at an age where most have retired I would ask you to stop being so downright condescending.
I have produced enough stats about age related health issues etc. to know now that most of them aren't age related but lifestyle driven. I wish there was money in telling truths like this but there isn't so I produced statistically correct but fundamentally flawed data showing what happens to aging bodies that aren't looked after as if that is inevitable regardless.
I have as much stamina as I ever had, more high weight endurance than ever, more muscle mass than ever, nearly as much power as my best ever despite having neglected this for most of the last year and a half. What I have is the result of the training I have done. Despite numerous injuries from my youth I have full mobility even in previously damaged joints and know this can be maintained through continuous movement.
If people are inactive and start training late in life it is the inactivity not their age that is to be overcome, genuine science has proven this many times. Age is one of the least important factors in training, personal history is far more relevant.
Rant over, I have a zimmer frame to catch to the pensioners bus.
Crazy Old Man
I don't understand your reply and your tone.
In what way was I "condescending" ?
I am 50 myself.
And yes, I know many examples of people who have accomplished amazing things in later years.
But in answering this person's question, I was supplying useful and accurate information that would be beneficial to anybody to achieve good results in terms of fitness.
I also acknowledged that if they were interested in hardcore bodybuilding that would involve other factors --- but when you consider the "average person" in society trying to get in better shape and looking for clear answers to their questions -- the guidelines I supplied are valid.
I don't understand your reply and your tone.
In what way was I "condescending" ?
I am 50 myself.
And yes, I know many examples of people who have accomplished amazing things in later years.
But in answering this person's question, I was supplying useful and accurate information that would be beneficial to anybody to achieve good results in terms of fitness.
I also acknowledged that if they were interested in hardcore bodybuilding that would involve other factors --- but when you consider the "average person" in society trying to get in better shape and looking for clear answers to their questions -- the guidelines I supplied are valid.
Michael Spitzer
A lot of the information in your advice post is correct. I could add to it as I am sure you could, it wasn't that I was referring to. Your generic advise is good and easy for most to understand and therefore valuable.
However please consider that you are invariably using this forum as a place to sell your book which is aimed at demonstrating that people aged 40+ have to train differently to everyone else and then say in the post advertising it 'this explanation from the book was targeted for Fitness after age 40, but it is still a good training guideline for any age.' which totally contradicts this. The points you give on general training are fine but they aren't age dependant.
I understand the desire to sell a book you have undoubtedly spent a lot of time on but I have seen so many put off training because they are too old and books like yours pointing out all the things that will have gone wrong with their bodies after 40 only reinforce this. Having witnessed this so often I am going to challenge those trying to profit from enforcing these fears.
There are a lot of people who get to 40, 50 etc. who start training in a panic fearing literally for their life. What will have happened to them is dependant on many factors, age being one of the least. Someone who has been a delivery driver/ manual handler for a builders merchant will still have plenty of fast twitch fibres but likely never does physical activity for more than a few minutes and working from stereotype will consume a lot of beer and smoke. They will need to be looking after heart and lungs which will be in bad shape. An office worker who drives to work but has kept slim through diet will have different needs to one who eats crisps and chocolate all day.
Personal experience, observations and a heck of a lot of data shows lifestyle and duration not age are the main factors to the misnamed age related changes society expects.
While I encourage any new trainers to start steady I make it clear that as long as they have no health or mobility issues stopping them there are no limits to what a fully formed adult body can do. Your approach of, you will be losing fast twitch fibres so get weak, your joints will be failing etc. will put a glass ceiling over people and that is unfair and condescending.
It is of course your right to disagree, I don't declare I am always right. However if you consider I live by my signature, you will understand why I don't approve of people placing potentially unfair limits on others. The attitude has taken me from theoretical lifetime in wheelchair to being able to run despite carrying an extra 50% of the bodyweight from that time among other things. If I had simply accepted the limits placed on me by the medical professionals who had operated on me, my life would have been very different. I do suffer for this and other damage I caused daily, but my training keeps it under control, connective tissue strength and endurance keeps my body moving, the movement keeps the joints working and a daily morning routine means I spend most of the day relatively pain free. I will not give in ever, I know moderation would work but I prefer insanity so will keep going that way.
I welcome being proven wrong as I have been a number of times here by newer data than I have regarding fitness. I will state however that I have recently been involved in assessing age related illnesses and in all cases it was lifestyle not age that caused the problems.
A lot of the information in your advice post is correct. I could add to it as I am sure you could, it wasn't that I was referring to. Your generic advise is good and easy for most to understand and therefore valuable.
However please consider that you are invariably using this forum as a place to sell your book which is aimed at demonstrating that people aged 40+ have to train differently to everyone else and then say in the post advertising it 'this explanation from the book was targeted for Fitness after age 40, but it is still a good training guideline for any age.' which totally contradicts this. The points you give on general training are fine but they aren't age dependant.
I understand the desire to sell a book you have undoubtedly spent a lot of time on but I have seen so many put off training because they are too old and books like yours pointing out all the things that will have gone wrong with their bodies after 40 only reinforce this. Having witnessed this so often I am going to challenge those trying to profit from enforcing these fears.
There are a lot of people who get to 40, 50 etc. who start training in a panic fearing literally for their life. What will have happened to them is dependant on many factors, age being one of the least. Someone who has been a delivery driver/ manual handler for a builders merchant will still have plenty of fast twitch fibres but likely never does physical activity for more than a few minutes and working from stereotype will consume a lot of beer and smoke. They will need to be looking after heart and lungs which will be in bad shape. An office worker who drives to work but has kept slim through diet will have different needs to one who eats crisps and chocolate all day.
Personal experience, observations and a heck of a lot of data shows lifestyle and duration not age are the main factors to the misnamed age related changes society expects.
While I encourage any new trainers to start steady I make it clear that as long as they have no health or mobility issues stopping them there are no limits to what a fully formed adult body can do. Your approach of, you will be losing fast twitch fibres so get weak, your joints will be failing etc. will put a glass ceiling over people and that is unfair and condescending.
It is of course your right to disagree, I don't declare I am always right. However if you consider I live by my signature, you will understand why I don't approve of people placing potentially unfair limits on others. The attitude has taken me from theoretical lifetime in wheelchair to being able to run despite carrying an extra 50% of the bodyweight from that time among other things. If I had simply accepted the limits placed on me by the medical professionals who had operated on me, my life would have been very different. I do suffer for this and other damage I caused daily, but my training keeps it under control, connective tissue strength and endurance keeps my body moving, the movement keeps the joints working and a daily morning routine means I spend most of the day relatively pain free. I will not give in ever, I know moderation would work but I prefer insanity so will keep going that way.
I welcome being proven wrong as I have been a number of times here by newer data than I have regarding fitness. I will state however that I have recently been involved in assessing age related illnesses and in all cases it was lifestyle not age that caused the problems.
Old Man
I must disagree with you 100%
There is no fear mongering in my description of selecting the amount of weights to be used when starting a basic weight training program.
Only logical and practical basic guidelines that I offered the original post who asked for some help.
I think you are pre-judging me based on views or experiences you have formed from others in the past.
There are certainly people who are hardcore into fitness and bodybuilding. These people know much about training and are usually in much better shape than others in the general population of their same age.
Yes, Stallone, Lou Ferrigno and probably many people on this forum know 300% more about fitness and training than the "average person".
But this is the exception - not the rule.
Go out in public today and take a look around you.
Go to a local gym or fitness center and watch the people there.
The harsh reality is that the vast majority of the general public are in pretty bad shape.
Many are probably living a self-fulfilled prophecy of thinking over 40 really is over the Hill..... and thus they allow themselves to fall apart .... thus aging themselves faster than they should due to this choice of lifestyle.
Others have real issues brought about by a lifetime of wear, tear and injury.
A large percentage of people over 40 today do indeed have flexibility issues, decreased lung and heart function, lower back and knee issues, etc ........
These factors need to be considered when structuring a training program regardless of how they acquired those problems (self imposed due to lifestyle or other reason).
I did not contradict myself as you suggested.
The idea of 8-12 reps as a good all around range is indeed a good guideline for people of all ages --- BUT ---- it is even better advice for most older people, as the idea of the average 70 year old performing 2-3 rep max Squats is not the smartest idea for most people.
Yes - I know we can always find the rare exception to the rule like Jack Lalanne who could perform these feats --- but the offered advice is applicable to the other 99.7% of society.
Too often I will see a 60 year old on a leg press loaded with 12 plates, bending their knee less than 4 inches.
No warm up, no full range of motions ......... worse yet, they totally lock out the knee in the top position.
You -- being really interested in training might find this unbelievable, but it is rampant in every fitness center, gym, etc...
But then this same person limps away while wearing wraps and wonders why their leg muscles never seem to grow or get stronger but they have knee problems.
I see this EVERY DAY without fail.
Somehow many of these folks missed out on important basic information.
The "average" person in society over 40 is not the same as the fitness-minded person in society over 40 in either fitness levels or technical knowledge on doing things properly and not injuring themselves.
Again I will respond -- you have unfairly pre-judged me based on past experiences or views you have formed based on the actions or words of others in the past.
There is no negative "fear mongering" in my message --- actually I am 180 degrees the opposite as my writings are motivational and inspirational for those over 40 .... telling them they can accomplish far more than they think they can, and the old idea of "Over 40 being over the hill" is largely a mindset that falsely leads people into an inactive lifestyle that became a self fulfilling prophecy that caused them to "go to seed" much earlier than they should.
Not to harp on the book, but your raised the issue ............ if you were to preview some of the sample chapters on my website you would see the depth of information provided ----- the detailed exercise descriptions and would realize I should not be lumped into the same group that you are unhappy with.
My approach was to describe in detail what happens to the body with age based on medical research and statisitcs.
Then look at the statistics of what ailments people report having in modern society
(% with back problems, heart issues, overweight, etc....)
Then describe how much of this is not a neccessity and we can do much to reverse, undo and/or prevent those problems.
You strike me as serious about your training, so chances are most of this material will seem like basic information to you ---- you already know it.
But we "gym rats" must remember that most of the outside world does not know 1/10th of this information.
But when writing for the general public, you must keep in mind that 38% of people (in the USA at least) are obese (not just overweight).
Many people don't know the difference between a set or a rep.
I see this firsthand in a gym associated with a hospital where the research and development of the book was done.
The vast majority of older people in the general society simply don't understand the basics of diet, weight training and cardio that 99% of the people on this forum probably take for granted as basic knowledge.
It is those people who need some guidance to put them on the right track to improve their fitness levels and avoid injuring themselves.
Hope that clarifies things and sets the record straight.
Thanks
M.S.
P.S.
Speaking of Lou Ferrigno
View attachment 6053
I must disagree with you 100%
There is no fear mongering in my description of selecting the amount of weights to be used when starting a basic weight training program.
Only logical and practical basic guidelines that I offered the original post who asked for some help.
I think you are pre-judging me based on views or experiences you have formed from others in the past.
There are certainly people who are hardcore into fitness and bodybuilding. These people know much about training and are usually in much better shape than others in the general population of their same age.
Yes, Stallone, Lou Ferrigno and probably many people on this forum know 300% more about fitness and training than the "average person".
But this is the exception - not the rule.
Go out in public today and take a look around you.
Go to a local gym or fitness center and watch the people there.
The harsh reality is that the vast majority of the general public are in pretty bad shape.
Many are probably living a self-fulfilled prophecy of thinking over 40 really is over the Hill..... and thus they allow themselves to fall apart .... thus aging themselves faster than they should due to this choice of lifestyle.
Others have real issues brought about by a lifetime of wear, tear and injury.
A large percentage of people over 40 today do indeed have flexibility issues, decreased lung and heart function, lower back and knee issues, etc ........
These factors need to be considered when structuring a training program regardless of how they acquired those problems (self imposed due to lifestyle or other reason).
I did not contradict myself as you suggested.
The idea of 8-12 reps as a good all around range is indeed a good guideline for people of all ages --- BUT ---- it is even better advice for most older people, as the idea of the average 70 year old performing 2-3 rep max Squats is not the smartest idea for most people.
Yes - I know we can always find the rare exception to the rule like Jack Lalanne who could perform these feats --- but the offered advice is applicable to the other 99.7% of society.
Too often I will see a 60 year old on a leg press loaded with 12 plates, bending their knee less than 4 inches.
No warm up, no full range of motions ......... worse yet, they totally lock out the knee in the top position.
You -- being really interested in training might find this unbelievable, but it is rampant in every fitness center, gym, etc...
But then this same person limps away while wearing wraps and wonders why their leg muscles never seem to grow or get stronger but they have knee problems.
I see this EVERY DAY without fail.
Somehow many of these folks missed out on important basic information.
The "average" person in society over 40 is not the same as the fitness-minded person in society over 40 in either fitness levels or technical knowledge on doing things properly and not injuring themselves.
Again I will respond -- you have unfairly pre-judged me based on past experiences or views you have formed based on the actions or words of others in the past.
There is no negative "fear mongering" in my message --- actually I am 180 degrees the opposite as my writings are motivational and inspirational for those over 40 .... telling them they can accomplish far more than they think they can, and the old idea of "Over 40 being over the hill" is largely a mindset that falsely leads people into an inactive lifestyle that became a self fulfilling prophecy that caused them to "go to seed" much earlier than they should.
Not to harp on the book, but your raised the issue ............ if you were to preview some of the sample chapters on my website you would see the depth of information provided ----- the detailed exercise descriptions and would realize I should not be lumped into the same group that you are unhappy with.
My approach was to describe in detail what happens to the body with age based on medical research and statisitcs.
Then look at the statistics of what ailments people report having in modern society
(% with back problems, heart issues, overweight, etc....)
Then describe how much of this is not a neccessity and we can do much to reverse, undo and/or prevent those problems.
You strike me as serious about your training, so chances are most of this material will seem like basic information to you ---- you already know it.
But we "gym rats" must remember that most of the outside world does not know 1/10th of this information.
But when writing for the general public, you must keep in mind that 38% of people (in the USA at least) are obese (not just overweight).
Many people don't know the difference between a set or a rep.
I see this firsthand in a gym associated with a hospital where the research and development of the book was done.
The vast majority of older people in the general society simply don't understand the basics of diet, weight training and cardio that 99% of the people on this forum probably take for granted as basic knowledge.
It is those people who need some guidance to put them on the right track to improve their fitness levels and avoid injuring themselves.
Hope that clarifies things and sets the record straight.
Thanks
M.S.
P.S.
Speaking of Lou Ferrigno
View attachment 6053
Attachments
The pic above of Lou and myself was from the Masters Olympia contest in Miami Florida last December.
I pasted it since you mentioned Ferrigno in your post and sounds like you admire him.
I pasted it since you mentioned Ferrigno in your post and sounds like you admire him.
Mike
I didn't criticise your post about reps etc. Obviously not made clear enough.
I do love to be proven wrong and having not read your book only your posts, will take you totally at your word. I will check it out of course, will be the first random fitness reading this year.
The parts that made me think you were predominantly fear mongering were you typing about fast twitch fibre loss and joint issues as if these were automatic. As with most things these can be easily taken out of context and it appears this is what I have done. Not the first time won't be the last.
Before I continue I have to say you are one lucky so and so for having met the mighty Lou. I do remember a number of people in my younger days saying he had died due to steroid misuse because they knew a star of the hulk had died. Truth was it was the actor for David Banner that had died, this guy will go on forever.
I have been out in the real world, seen a lot of stupidity and done some of it myself so I know where you are coming from. In my quest to bicep curl like the big guys I remember using just about every muscle group imaginable to cheat up reps, failing on one particular occasion caused a strain that deserved a pull, I learned. I still train on the border of injury a lot but not solidly in the realms of stupidity anymore. Unfortunately a lot of the real stupidity is not from one off occurrences like that it's long term bad form or uneven training.
Time of training has shown me so many things that can seem sensible on the surface but prove stupid over time. The classic is people not doing deadlifts to protect their back, everyone I know who has avoided deadlifts this way has a bad back, yet me and others who have done them for decades no problem, even when I hurt mine doing them earlier this year, it's fine again now.
Caring for biceps but not heart is another, because of course hospitals are full of people having suffered bicep failure. I could go on but I'm getting on now and don't have the years left to list them all.
That of course is just the Muppets who have found their way to trying fitness. The list of stupid claims by those who haven't is just amazing. People who read an article (advert in English) once that says all they need is to use a specific thing 10 minutes a day and they will have abs in no time. Running is bad for the knees, which if done badly it is of course. Weight training is for body builders, low carb diets work long term, the list goes on.
The point of your book seems to be to address people with a variety of lifestyle caused issues and remedial work to do. I did plenty of remedial in my younger days, not as much now because I am less stupid, carefully worded. I've never had to sell a book so don't know how I would market something like that so I guess target labelling it to older groups who are statistically more likely to have these needs makes sense. I guess part of my annoyance comes from having to have produces some of those stats to show heart disease, respiratory issues, joint conditions etc. as age related when they so evidently weren't because the company would make more money selling the data if it avoided mentioning lifestyle. This is why I try to look past stats so much, jaded by having created them.
I was victim to the assumptions when having the first recognised epileptic seizure a few years ago. Emergency team arrive, to man in late thirties fitting no previous history, one conclusion but ECG shows that was way off, not only was my heart not struggling but strong and stable. They were then lost and I spent the next several hours with nothing happening and got diagnosed epileptic 4 months later.
I enjoy being under-estimated most of the time and train to make this more likely but on this occasion I was not happy that they assumed my only training would be weights to make me pretty so my heart would be useless.
I remember getting a card from my brother a while ago saying 'You're not over the hill yet' and on the inside 'But you are a lot closer to the top than I am' My response better over the hill than under it.
In my family I am the eldest in my generation and by far the fittest. One of the things I love about getting older is the reduction in people attributing my fitness and recover to my youth.
I have worked with people half my age who asked how I can be as fit at my age, my normal response is by starting before I was their age. Training from youth is the best way to be fit when older, obviously this is not the market you are aiming at.
I didn't criticise your post about reps etc. Obviously not made clear enough.
I do love to be proven wrong and having not read your book only your posts, will take you totally at your word. I will check it out of course, will be the first random fitness reading this year.
The parts that made me think you were predominantly fear mongering were you typing about fast twitch fibre loss and joint issues as if these were automatic. As with most things these can be easily taken out of context and it appears this is what I have done. Not the first time won't be the last.
Before I continue I have to say you are one lucky so and so for having met the mighty Lou. I do remember a number of people in my younger days saying he had died due to steroid misuse because they knew a star of the hulk had died. Truth was it was the actor for David Banner that had died, this guy will go on forever.
I have been out in the real world, seen a lot of stupidity and done some of it myself so I know where you are coming from. In my quest to bicep curl like the big guys I remember using just about every muscle group imaginable to cheat up reps, failing on one particular occasion caused a strain that deserved a pull, I learned. I still train on the border of injury a lot but not solidly in the realms of stupidity anymore. Unfortunately a lot of the real stupidity is not from one off occurrences like that it's long term bad form or uneven training.
Time of training has shown me so many things that can seem sensible on the surface but prove stupid over time. The classic is people not doing deadlifts to protect their back, everyone I know who has avoided deadlifts this way has a bad back, yet me and others who have done them for decades no problem, even when I hurt mine doing them earlier this year, it's fine again now.
Caring for biceps but not heart is another, because of course hospitals are full of people having suffered bicep failure. I could go on but I'm getting on now and don't have the years left to list them all.
That of course is just the Muppets who have found their way to trying fitness. The list of stupid claims by those who haven't is just amazing. People who read an article (advert in English) once that says all they need is to use a specific thing 10 minutes a day and they will have abs in no time. Running is bad for the knees, which if done badly it is of course. Weight training is for body builders, low carb diets work long term, the list goes on.
The point of your book seems to be to address people with a variety of lifestyle caused issues and remedial work to do. I did plenty of remedial in my younger days, not as much now because I am less stupid, carefully worded. I've never had to sell a book so don't know how I would market something like that so I guess target labelling it to older groups who are statistically more likely to have these needs makes sense. I guess part of my annoyance comes from having to have produces some of those stats to show heart disease, respiratory issues, joint conditions etc. as age related when they so evidently weren't because the company would make more money selling the data if it avoided mentioning lifestyle. This is why I try to look past stats so much, jaded by having created them.
I was victim to the assumptions when having the first recognised epileptic seizure a few years ago. Emergency team arrive, to man in late thirties fitting no previous history, one conclusion but ECG shows that was way off, not only was my heart not struggling but strong and stable. They were then lost and I spent the next several hours with nothing happening and got diagnosed epileptic 4 months later.
I enjoy being under-estimated most of the time and train to make this more likely but on this occasion I was not happy that they assumed my only training would be weights to make me pretty so my heart would be useless.
I remember getting a card from my brother a while ago saying 'You're not over the hill yet' and on the inside 'But you are a lot closer to the top than I am' My response better over the hill than under it.
In my family I am the eldest in my generation and by far the fittest. One of the things I love about getting older is the reduction in people attributing my fitness and recover to my youth.
I have worked with people half my age who asked how I can be as fit at my age, my normal response is by starting before I was their age. Training from youth is the best way to be fit when older, obviously this is not the market you are aiming at.
Crazy Old man
Thank you for the response.
It seems the limited words of online communications created a misunderstanding that normally does not happen when people are able to speak in a live real-world manner.
Seems we actually agree on the principle point that much of the "over the hill after 40" effects we see in modern Western Society are not so much inevitable as they are the results of people accepting that mindset, becoming less active and thus making that trend become true.
The "self fulfilling prophecy" I was referring to.
I am glad we cleared that up with each other.
Yes, Lou is a genuine nice guy.
I have also briefly met Arnold and Stallone when I worked on their films True Lies and Specialist in the 90s.
But I have spent much more time talking with guys like Lou and other old time guys like Franco, Boyer, etc....
By the way -- At only 40, why do you call yourself "old man" at this age ?
You are not that old yet (smile)
I have almost 11 years on you here (about to turn 51 myself --- arrrghhhh)
Thanks again for clearing the waters
We are cool.
Thank you for the response.
It seems the limited words of online communications created a misunderstanding that normally does not happen when people are able to speak in a live real-world manner.
Seems we actually agree on the principle point that much of the "over the hill after 40" effects we see in modern Western Society are not so much inevitable as they are the results of people accepting that mindset, becoming less active and thus making that trend become true.
The "self fulfilling prophecy" I was referring to.
I am glad we cleared that up with each other.
Yes, Lou is a genuine nice guy.
I have also briefly met Arnold and Stallone when I worked on their films True Lies and Specialist in the 90s.
But I have spent much more time talking with guys like Lou and other old time guys like Franco, Boyer, etc....
By the way -- At only 40, why do you call yourself "old man" at this age ?
You are not that old yet (smile)
I have almost 11 years on you here (about to turn 51 myself --- arrrghhhh)
Thanks again for clearing the waters
We are cool.
More about Lou ....
In speaking with him, you can tell he still to this day has regrets and second thoughts about leaving bodybuilding and doing the HULK.
He still misses never getting the Olympia title.
I told him my viewpoint for what it was worth
I told him that considering how little bodybuilding paid back then, he certainly made more $$$ doing the TV show.
Furthermore, he is still better known than most bodybuilders.
After all --- outside the sport, ask the average person on the street who Lee Haney, or Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman is
They will have no idea.
It is a small, small niche sport.
But people still know Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk 35 year later.
I said I think he made the right choice
Hopefully made him feel better although I am sure he will always have that lingering regret that he never was able to see how far he might have gone.
In speaking with him, you can tell he still to this day has regrets and second thoughts about leaving bodybuilding and doing the HULK.
He still misses never getting the Olympia title.
I told him my viewpoint for what it was worth
I told him that considering how little bodybuilding paid back then, he certainly made more $$$ doing the TV show.
Furthermore, he is still better known than most bodybuilders.
After all --- outside the sport, ask the average person on the street who Lee Haney, or Dorian Yates or Ronnie Coleman is
They will have no idea.
It is a small, small niche sport.
But people still know Lou Ferrigno as the Hulk 35 year later.
I said I think he made the right choice
Hopefully made him feel better although I am sure he will always have that lingering regret that he never was able to see how far he might have gone.
The label is what others see when I am training, especially as the gym I had just stopped training at was a university gym. It's also what you learn to see when you have a young child.
I now train at home, have my play area set up with the basics, power rack with chin bar and cable system, adjustable bench, Olympic bar with 220kg of weight to put on it, kettlebells, bosu, suspension trainer, fat gripz, farmers walk handles, just the essentials really.
It's not unusual for me to ask people to justify what they have said, as you will be aware a lot of advice is dangerous at best. In return I accept people doing so with me I am not always right and thankfully people will correct me.
Based in the UK and most of it in a backwater spot I haven't met many of the greats though have been in the presence of and even trained in with one time junior Mr. Universe Stuart Core. He would never have wanted me as a training partner considering he used dumbbells weighing more than I did, but it was interesting to see him.
My wife has seen Laurence Shahlaei training recently and he was something to behold. Few appreciate how fit strongmen are, my wife as a former powerlifter knew what to expect but others were embarrassed to see a guy twice their size with evidently so much more stamina on the rower. His trainer had to foot the rower to slow it's travel across the floor too. Strength wise he was obviously awesome at a level mere mortals cannot imagine.
I think we all look back with regret at what we didn't do, Lou will be no different. That is why I consider myself very lucky. My younger life was a mess but I did things most barely dream of and then some, now I am a middle aged family man and have no desire to do more stupid things. I know how that felt, it was fun in its way but boring family man feels better.
Of course we are cool. I will undoubtedly challenge you again and expect the same in return, I'm sure you won't let me down.
The age thing I remember from when my son was in reception year at school. One of his class was asked to guess the age of the headmistress who was retirement age or passed that, the response was 'I don't know really old, like sixteen.' There is nothing that little girl could have said that would have made every adult there feel older if she'd tried. We all considered sixteen very young and to them it was ancient. Age is very much from viewpoint being middle aged I am young to the old folk, old to the youngsters and just weird to those my age.
I now train at home, have my play area set up with the basics, power rack with chin bar and cable system, adjustable bench, Olympic bar with 220kg of weight to put on it, kettlebells, bosu, suspension trainer, fat gripz, farmers walk handles, just the essentials really.
It's not unusual for me to ask people to justify what they have said, as you will be aware a lot of advice is dangerous at best. In return I accept people doing so with me I am not always right and thankfully people will correct me.
Based in the UK and most of it in a backwater spot I haven't met many of the greats though have been in the presence of and even trained in with one time junior Mr. Universe Stuart Core. He would never have wanted me as a training partner considering he used dumbbells weighing more than I did, but it was interesting to see him.
My wife has seen Laurence Shahlaei training recently and he was something to behold. Few appreciate how fit strongmen are, my wife as a former powerlifter knew what to expect but others were embarrassed to see a guy twice their size with evidently so much more stamina on the rower. His trainer had to foot the rower to slow it's travel across the floor too. Strength wise he was obviously awesome at a level mere mortals cannot imagine.
I think we all look back with regret at what we didn't do, Lou will be no different. That is why I consider myself very lucky. My younger life was a mess but I did things most barely dream of and then some, now I am a middle aged family man and have no desire to do more stupid things. I know how that felt, it was fun in its way but boring family man feels better.
Of course we are cool. I will undoubtedly challenge you again and expect the same in return, I'm sure you won't let me down.
The age thing I remember from when my son was in reception year at school. One of his class was asked to guess the age of the headmistress who was retirement age or passed that, the response was 'I don't know really old, like sixteen.' There is nothing that little girl could have said that would have made every adult there feel older if she'd tried. We all considered sixteen very young and to them it was ancient. Age is very much from viewpoint being middle aged I am young to the old folk, old to the youngsters and just weird to those my age.