HIIT but weight loss slowed to halt

J

janusz

0
Greetings!

My first post here!

I need some guidance . . . and I'm hoping you may be able to help!

BACKGROUND:
I am 65 years old. Height: 6'1". I had a stent implanted (widow-maker heart artery) in March. Back then I weighed 265lbs and did not exercise. I was told to walk at least 40-45 minutes/day and to avoid fats, etc. I started out doing just that. Soon I started to do "shuffle-jogging" for 10 seconds or so and the continue walking -- interval exercise of sorts. I was losing weight! In a few weeks I was able to actually jog for 45-60 seconds, then I was actually sprinting and feeling better. My recovery periods were long but I just kept at it. Eventually I was able to exercise for about one hour, 10 minutes -- broken into two parts with a 3 minute rest between. My weight went down to 195lbs! Super! Absolutely no discomfort or anything related to the heart. My LDL & triglycerides have decreased significantly and HDL has increased; my doctor said it was the exercise more than my diet and likes what am doing. Keep on, keeping on!

In my interval routine I based it on my max heart rate (220-65=155) and set a min of 110; max of 132. Believe me, running-sprinting to get to 132 was difficult. In a few weeks I discovered that running to get the heart rate to max was not very challenging. I was running as fast as I could (without falling flat on my face)! So, I added 5 lbs ankle weights and this did the trick by increasing the resistance.

PROGRESS - WEIGHT LOSS
But, I noticed that my weight loss was becoming slower as I crossed over the 200lb line. My diet has been mostly 95% veggies, low GI carbs, some turkey, chicken, etc. Of course, my exercise is intended to improve cardio conditioning and weight loss is a nice secondary benefit. I decided to switch to HIIT after reading about its benefits ("afterburn").

MY ROUTINE
I have done this for 5 weeks: I do 10-12 intervals within 20-25 minutes (includes 2 warm-up intervals). I do this in the morning before breakfast. During this time I have been able to move my max heart rate from 132 to 148+. The first several intervals consists of sprinting as fast as I am able to increase the heart rate quickly to 140-145 zone with rest periods determined by heart rate, min 112-115. The last 4-5 intervals I try to push the heart rate to 147-150. In the later intervals I am able to get to the max heart rate faster than earlier intervals; recovery is a bit longer but I don't let the rest period heart rate get below 115.

Other: I do push-ups and ab-crunchs plus do bicep work with 25 lb hand weights. I do this every other day in the evenings for about 30 minutes.

Each time I sprint I let it all hang out and go as long as I physically can as fast as I am able. I mean it's all I can do. Afterwards, the rapid deep breaths just suck in the oxygen. I am left breathing very heavily (I work on taking deep breaths) for 10-15 seconds. By the time I finish the HIIT exercise routine, I am totally drained, wiped out. After cool-down I feel great! I do this daily (mornings) with Saturdays a rest day.

QUESTIONS
Now my question: why is my weight remaining at the 193-195 lb level? It has been at this level for 4-5 weeks. I'd like to lose 10-15 lbs more but it's not happening. When I first started HIIT I noticed that I noticed that -- to my amazement -- hunger increased; I seldom had hunger pangs with the longer hour exercise. In any case, my diet remained the same: lots of veggies (noon & evening meals) with some fish, turkey, chicken, in at least one meal per day.

I am fairly confident that I am doing HIIT correctly. I give all I can in each interval to achieve max heart rate; there is nothing left. It's VERY intense (for me).

Could this be helped by an increase in protein? I have been looking at purchasing a no-fat, no-carb protein powder (Dymatize ISO 100) with the idea of having a protein drink at breakfast to supplement my normal protein intake. Or am I completely off base?

Other than that, I feel great.

Thanks,

janusz
 
Your current calorie intake has become your maintenance level. Calculate your current BMR and try lowering it a bit.
 
Id like to see you with lower intensity work outs. Theres a lot of claims about "after burn", but do you think its as beneficial considering you cant run as hard and for as long as a 30 year old, im not to sure but doubt it.

The 30-60 minutes 70% max will do wonders of your fitness and with thta level of intensity, burn predominately fat. Thats why some people powerwalk for fat loss, but that should be the last resort to jogging.

It'd be interesting too see you on a stress test to hooked up to an ECG to see how thing are going, or even how GOOD things are going ;)
 
I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Plate89 -- I've done the basic calculation () and used the Harris Benedict Formula (1.55 multiplier) to determine my total calorie needs. 2737 calories and this is close to the mark. I will reduce my calorie intake about 500 calories and see where that takes me. I will make the effort to keep a close tab on the calories. Seems obvious when you mention it but when one is involved in something it is often easy to overlook the obvious.

BTW, my reason for asking about protein was that I had read that if you do not have sufficient protein when doing regular exercise the body sees the energy expenditure, demands replacement energy, and tends to want to store up the energy as fat. If given more protein in the diet the body will not see it as starving (needing to store fat). Re-thinking things I do not think this is relevant to my situation.

matt182 -- Yes, I'm probably pushing it a bit as I near my max heart rate. Believe me the last 5-10 seconds make a huge difference. In any case, when I was doing an hour I would do "intervals" but not as intense, probably 80% max and finishing off at about 90%. It was when weight loss slowed with the hour routine that I began looking at the shorter more intense intervals. As stated above, the weight loss just came to a halt.

Your comment about 30-60 minutes @ 70% max doing wonders got me to thinking how I did the longer exercise routine before switching to 20 minutes intense routine. As mentioned above, for the longer exercise period I based it all on max heart rate of 132. What I learned in recent weeks doing the 20 minute intense intervals that the 132 max heart rate is easy to achieve. Looking back on it I kept the max heart rate of 132! It became easier to get to the 132 heart rate -- I sprinted until it was around 132 and then slowed down to rest. I would let my heart rate get to about 100 before starting the next sprint. What I was not aware of -- because I became so used to doing the same routine -- was that my heart was responding to the workouts and I could increase the max heart rate to about 135-140 and still get a nice cardio workout.

I probably need to go back to the longer, much less intense 60 minute routine and begin with a heart rate of 132 over several intervals ultimately finishing with max heart rate between 135-140 (without the extreme exertion!).

No, it is not possible to run as hard as a 30 year old. For an old dude like me running as I have been, it is on the edge. This has been a concern because I would hate to trip and end up on my face -- another reason to slow things down a bit. Your comments have given me pause to re-think things.

I am scheduled to see the cardiologist again in a few weeks. It will likely include a stress test and other tests to check heart blood flow, etc. I think I will do very well.

I thank both of you -- Plate89 and matt182 -- for giving me insight into both sides of the energy equation. I greatly appreciate it. I will post back at a later date and let everyone know how I am progressing as I go back to the 60 minute routine and watching calories -- beginning tomorrow morning!
 
Welcome, Janusz!

Would you mind elaborating on your blood lipid profiles? This is of particular interest to me as I am 39 with a very similar problem. They went in to take a look, but decided that at my age, a stent would be a bad idea unless they knew I would be the poster child for fitness. My biggest problem was off the chart low HDL. I've got that issue licked, and without prescriptions.

I'm sure the docs probably started you on a statin, but did you also start on Niaspan, for example?

Great results from your hard work and nutrition plan! Sometimes it takes these big scares to make us realize it's time to change EVERYTHING.

Good luck and keep with it. Sounds like you are doing the right thing in keeping a sharp eye on the HR. I know at almost 40 it gets harder to lose fat and gain lean mass...maybe that's incorrect...it does take longer though, so if you hit plateaus, don't get discouraged, just take some of the good advice already mentioned and blast through it.

I wish you luck, and glad that your family get's to keep you around for a long time with your new body and re-worked plumbing.
 
Looks like youll know a lot more about yourself in the coming weeks, hope all goes well and you can start out a solid plan for you to stick to.

If you continue with your running and consuming a healthy diet, just because you may have a bit more fat then you really need isnt to much of a problem. If your worrying about risks such as cardio events then you can put it into perspective. A person who is lean but unfit is more prone to cardiovascular disease than someone overweight but fit. Remember, its the visceral fat surrounding the organs not the subcutaneous fat under the skin thats the problem.
 
Krodad --

No statin drug. I had 90% blockage in the "widow-maker" artery. There are some medical articles that state that many time stents are inserted when they may not be necessary; a stent in the "widow-maker" artery is necessary with 90% blockage. I do have some sub-arteries with 50-60% blockage. I was told that a regular exercise program will cause collateral arteries to grow. I will find out on the next visit to the cardiologist. In any case, I have approached the exercise slowly with caution. I am very sensitive to anything uncomfortable in and around the chest. I have made slow but steady progress.

I should add that all this came to light when I passed out. I had extremely low heart rate and was gasping for air. My son was visiting and he is a paramedic so he knew what to do. He told me that at one time my pulse was dangerous low (30). I have always had a low pulse rate and 50 was pretty common when I was sitting. It turned out that this can be dangerous in itself and can cause sudden death. At the hospital they checked me out thoroughly and found the 90% blockage. I never had angina or any other indication of a problem. The low heart rate exposed it! The low heart rate (bradycardia) was corrected with a pacemaker that does not let my heart rate get below 60 if after a certain time period (milliseconds) the heart does not send electrical signal. I do not notice I have the pacemaker; it is a non-issue. It does get me pass the long security checks at airports! :) So, THAT problem revealed the blockage. My heart muscle is fine but I have CAD, coronary artery disease. I will never forget the doctor coming to my room and announcing in a booming, loud voice (I think everyone on the floor heard him) that I had cornary artery disease.

I take aspirin and Plavix (blood thinner), Toprol (drops BP), and Benicar (BP: expands blood vessels for better circulation). The only thing new added after the stent was Plavix. I have medicated stent and the aspirin and Plavix prevent restenosis (closing) of the stent.

I have been taking Toprol for HBP for over 10 years. Works but left me sluggish, etc. -- but more on this later. My doctor put me on Tricor to reduce triglicerides. The doctor I had previously told me not to worry about triglicerides because the total cholesterol numbers were just fine.

Until I had the stent "installed" earlier this year, I never paid much attention to "the numbers" since Tricor had brought the triglicerides down. The doctor said that he is thinking about having me switch to over-the-counter supplement to control the triglicerides. My LDL was around 75 then with HDL around 30.

Remember I was around 265 lbs (minus the few I lost as a result of being in the hospital to have stent installed). I began walking, then brisk walking, etc. It was not easy but I just fell back to my old military days (1960s) when one just did it, no matter what, every day. :) My focus was and is to condition the heart to build collateral arteries and for sudden demand (like heart attack) -- but the most amazing thing happened! I was losing weight at a rate of about 10lbs per month.

A big problem I had was the Toprol (beta blocker). It tends to keep the heart rate low and conserve oxygen to the heart. My legs felt very heavy. I did two things: 1) I changed the time I took the beta blocker to mid-afternoon instead of before going to bed. Even though they say that it is time-release I found that if the time I took the med was longer, my exercise was better. 2) I found out that I could creep up on the heart rate (and the beta blocker) in a way. I would start out with a brisk walk and get the BP up to about 100, then the next interval I would try for 110, then 125, and then up to 130 or so. It seemed that the body-heart adjusted slowly.

As I lost weight I could do more (exercise) and as I did more, the stronger I felt, etc. Then I noticed that I began to feel light-headed after my workout. Concerned, I checked my BP. (BTW, I keep a log of my BP and check it several times a day, before exercise, after, etc. The doctor likes to review the log.) After exercise it was around 96/60 and remained at that level for several hours. I mentioned it to my doctor and he reduced the Toprol to half (was 100mg). WOW! It was a miracle!! The chains were removed. This was a significant event for me! No more sluggish legs, etc. My doctor said that if I lose 10-15lbs more (I'm working on it) that it may be that I can get off all BP meds completely.

My doctor recently noted that my LDL continues to decline and HDL is slowly increasing. He said that this is due to the exercise. I interjected that I was eating mostly veggies and avoiding fat, etc. He look at me and said that was fine but these gains are primarily a result of the exercise. My LDL is now around 58 and HDL is creeping up ever so slowly to 38. HDL is still very low but there is no med to increase it; exercise is the best way to increase HDL.

More info you might find interesting. I sat down with my doctor and told him about a man I met in California a few years ago who had 4 stents, etc. The man told me a story at breakfast one day about how he was reversing arteriosclerosis by vigorous exercise, a strict diet, and taking his meds. I found it fascinating and thought the man was a freak of nature for this to happen and the whole thing extraordinary. I was in San Francisco a few weeks ago and had dinner with the man. He reported that he had completely reversed the build-up in his arteries were clear. His doctor was very pleased and said that he could relax on his diet style but he said that he had no desire to do that. This man is my age and looks 40!

Anyway, I asked my doctor about this and he said that it is not an unrealistic goal -- yes, it can be done. I told the doctor that I want to do that. He said he would help but I had to do the "heavy hauling" by doing it. So, I'm on my way but it will take years to know if it all made a difference. I can positively say that I feel better than I have in decades and weighted more when I got out of the Army in 1964.

Here's an interesting Mayo Clinic article about a study known as the COURAGE trial (Clinical Outcomes

Utilizing Revascularization and Aggressive Drug Evaluation).


I am encouraged by the Dr. Gau's statement, "you have to exercise, eat more fruits and vegetables and lean meats, and take your medications. But if you do all that, ... the blockages in your heart arteries can disappear, or be significantly reduced."

Caution: Of course, one should discuss any lifestyle change program with his/her doctor.

People comment that I have eliminated heart attacks. No. I may have reduced the risk associated with the stent but overall there is a risk. However, continuing good health habits will reduce the overall risk over time. I hope to be a good example now because I've already been a bad example. :)

You bet that something like this SCARE you! People ask me about motivation. LIVING is a pretty good motivation. I do think that it is unfortunate that I ended up with a stent -- but do not regret it. Unfortunate because I was like most people, just plain ignorant -- or maybe stupid -- about it or just ignoring it (denial, never happen to me, etc.). I am one of those individuals who, once on a program, will stay with it. It is now a part of my life. One can do something about it. There are a lot of new approaches and not to be overlooked are the great medical advances in recent years.

I live in the country (about 100 miles NW of Houston). Our home is on a hill. The road out front slopes at about 5-8 degrees on both sides. The road is paved but is not a main road and only neighbors use the road. The good Lord provide me with the perfect outdoor gym! When I first started doing the brisk walk a neighbors would stop and ask me what I was doing, did I need help, etc. A rancher stopped one morning and asked me what I was doing? I told him that I was saving my life by exercising. He nodded and then asked me why I did not go all the way to the end of the road. I said that there is a house there and the people have dogs that bark and I did not want to disturb the dogs. The rancher laughed and said bluntly that I was trying not to be seen because I was so overweight. I told him that I could care less what people think of me when they see me but to keep on watching because they will see an slim man on this road one day. Now, neighbors wave. Some will stop and ask me about my progress and weight. All of this is motivating to me.



matt182 --

Thanks for the additional information. My fat is mostly flabby gut fat. I think that I've managed to get some muscle tone back in the back, arms, chest -- and legs, for sure. Even my tummy muscles have regained some tone as I've been able to do more ab crunches (I can do about 25 now; could barely do one just 8 months ago). I know ab crunches don't remove gut fat; overall exercise does. So, what you say sure makes sense. I will not worry too much about the gut fat and just keep on, keeping on. I think that it will eventually yield to my long-term program.

Sometimes it is easy to miss the forest for the trees. Thank you for providing a bit of perspective.

Thanks,

j
 
something similar is happening to me. I am active for 4-5 days a week. Lift 3 days a week, cardio 5 days (HIIT 2 days of them). My diet is very very good (accordint to many forum members,not just in here). So I dont know what's wrong.
 
It's been something I've been thinking about . . . what am I doing different now than before. Here are my observations and MY own discovery!!

1. My earlier 60 minute exercise was something that evolved from when I first started exercising. I had done the calculations to determine max heart rate. For me it was 220-65 = 155. From that I calculated a training zone: roughly 110-132. Well, it took a long time to get into condition enough to reach 132 but I eventually did. Weight loss was slow but steady. But, something else happened: it became easier and easier to get to 132. So, I added ankle weights and that bit of resistance helped but in a few weeks even that did not work. It was at this point I noticed no weight loss - and decided it was my exercise routine. I needed something different.

2. After reading about HIIT I switch to HIIT (pretty strenuous for me!) and still my weight just stayed the same. What the heck? I was achieving high max heart rate than previously but nothing to show for it weight-wise. So I decided to follow matt182's suggestion and go back to a less (dangerous?) stressful routine. Then a eureka moment, a discovery!

3. What I actually did was go back to my old routine (2x up and down the hill) of about 60 minutes. Here's today's routine: I went through about 7 minutes of warm-up intervals and then steadily increase the heart rate at each interval. Every time I got to the top of the hill I would take a 3-4 minute break, drink plenty of Gatoraide, and continue the fast run intervals. I did not sprint all-out but did run fast (85-90% max) and steady until I reached the desire heart rate for that interval. I let my body guide me. Surprisingly, each interval became easier. I could get to 145 and then start the rest-walk. The rest-walks became shorter as my breathing became normal at a higher heart rate (about 120-125). So, I just kept on doing the interval run-walk, progressively increasing the heart rate. The last interval I ran until the heart rate climbed to 152!!! And I really didn't have to struggle or gasp for air. Oh, I was breathing heavily but not uncomfortable. I think that as I went through progressive intervals the heart and blood vessels began to accommodate/expand due the increased demand for oxygen.

The discovery? As the heart becomes conditioned the training heart rate range INCREASES instead of staying at the same level indefinitely. This may be obvious to you but this is all new to me!

4. So, what's the difference? Energy in = energy out. Previously when I was doing the 60 minute interval routine I had assumed that 132 was max -- and that the number would not change. Of course, when I went to HIIT I discovered that I could achieve higher heart rate but it was grueling. So, going back to the 60 minute interval routine and challenging the limits of the heart rate ever so slowly, is -- I am positive -- what will get me back on track again as far as losing weight. I should know soon.

I get a nice cardio workout by progressively increasing the heart rate and burn more calories -- during and after. Heck, I definitely feel more of a "afterglow" with this routine than with what I called HIIT. I am sure I can get the time period of 60 minutes to about 45 minutes but if that happens it happens --all things in moderation.

I also looked at diet (energy in) and have made some modest changes. My wife cautioned me about cutting back the diet so as to go into a "starvation" mode. I will add the protein drink I mentioned earlier (I read somewhere that proper protein intake is essential so that muscles receive energy replacement thereby preventing the body from seeing the weight-loss as starvation and then trying to conserve energy as fat). I eat lots of "above ground" veggies and I try to eat low glycemic index carbs, and mostly legumes for protein and also some chicken, turkey, or fish. Portion size is critical! I do have a couple of bowls of Cherrios (whole grain) late in the evening.

Hope this helps.

j
 
Thanks for all the info on your condition, and being so open about it. My dad is 65 now, and had a heart attack about 5 years ago...the only thing that saved his life is the fact that the other vessels were in such good shape from his lifelong excercise and clean living. My biggest problem with the aftermath is that he and his cardiologist decided to do nothing about it, besides some drug therapy. My dad is a Phd Veterinarian, and a world renowned one at that, so he knows a thing or two about biology, and it was his decision, agreed to by the cardiologist, that no stent would be performed, no balloon, nothing. My argument was that 5 minutes before his heart attack, he was at 100% risk of having a heart attack (obviously), and that if anyone would have known this, a stent would have been performed. So, I was basically yelling at them both, because I wanted MY DAD FIXED!! This could happen again as he is laying in bed.

Anyway, genetics dealt him his blood cholesterol problem, which killed his mom at 62, and was on the way (still might) to punching my clock. My total cholesterol was not horrible, but HDL was in the tank. I had a calcium score test which put me in the 99% for my age, which is basically as bad as things get, but only the Lt. Anterior was showing the blockage (don't know if this is the widowmaker you speak of).
He is doing great, still no stent, but on statins and Niaspan, which is a prescription version of niacin. Getting the dosages right on both of those has been a bumper pool game. I take high doses of niacin myself, which is something you might want to talk to your cardiologist about. He will certainly tell you that only Niaspan will work, which I don't believe, but it's purpose is to help with the HDL numbers. I have gotten mine back into the normal range, which absolutely floored my doctors. The increase in HDL numbers is something that the Niaspan people would probably love to put in their advertising, but I know the number one reason for the change is excercise, then diet, then maybe the OTC niacin. I take 2 grams per day. HDL started at 21, and I just had a profile 2 weeks ago, and it's now past 45.

I think what we both need to do is get together for a south Texas dove hunt, then an Iowa pheasant hunt, and discuss these issues further! We can walk enough during the hunt to allow a couple frosty ones later on.
 
Hey, Krodad!

Your dad's conditioning certainly played a role in saving his life. As you know, cardio exercise leads to growth of collaterial arteries around blockages. From what I have learned -- and there's research to show this -- stents to open up arteries to reduce angina may be unnecessary -- in some situations; drug theapy -- and even various supplements are just as effective in reducing the pain of angina, in many cases. However, again from what I have read, if one has significant blockage in the left descending coronary artery, the widow-maker, stent is the way to go because if the artery closes then it will cause a massive heart attack. There's a reason it is called the "widow-maker" artery. That's the one I had stent inserted. Stents can truly be life-savers! Unfortunately, years ago stents were not available for my brother; he had the balloon treatment only to have the artery close soon thereafter. He died of a massive heart attack.

When I was in the hospital I was amazed at the advanced technology used for catherization, stent insertion, and even the installation of the pacemaker. I carried on a conversation with the surgeon, asked questions, etc. The entire team during the processess performed with precision. The only thing that was very uncomfortable was the chills -- I about froze to death!! When it was over and they wrapped those heated blankets around me . . . it was deliciously warm!

The aftermath you experienced with your dad was similar to mine. I was told to follow AMA diet, lose weight, walk 40 minutes daily, and take asprin & Plavix (the rest of my life). It was kinda anticlimatic. I asked about the partial blockages of the subarteries and what should I do, etc. The answer: I was told that I may have to have bypass surgery at some later date! Whattttt? So, what can I do now to prevent this? I was told to follow the diet, lose weight, walk and take the meds. I left the hospital thinking I was left with an enevitable bypass surgery. What I did know was that a stent or bypass did not "cure" the underlying cause.

So, after a long period of researching and talking things over with my family physician, I began a diet and exercise program with the goal of stopping and hopefully reversing the stuff in the arteries. (If I did not know someone personally who actually did it -- reversed the build-up in his arteries -- it would seem so much like a dream or fairytale.) I also take a few supplements -- with my doctor's approval -- that I have not mentioned here. In general, other than a good multivitamin w/super B-complex, they are strong antioxidants and other cardio and muscle nutrients. Some doctors view supplements as controversial; others are supportive. However, there is more and more research to show that some supplements can be beneficial. If you'd like to know more about the supplements I take, etc., just click on my name and PM me.

It is nice to see you have increased HDL to 45. That is great! I am working on it. However, there is some evidence that if your LDL is low then there is less to scavange by HDL so HDL is low. It is something I've discussed with my doctor. He sees progress with exercise. He did tell me that I need to give the body time to adjust to all these constantly changing conditions (wt loss, exercise, diet, meds, etc.). In fact, he asked me to come by the office before I go to see the cardiologist the next time; he wants to prepare a report showing my progress. My daily intake of niacin is about 75mg. In addition to supplements, I'm pretty much following this (less the drinks) --

I am not fond of taking ANY drug especially after hearing about the Pfizer HDL drug Torcetrapib that lead to deaths of 70-80 patients last year in the trial. Yikes! From what I know the Niaspan is an extended release niacin with all the precautions associated with the vitamin (I think it is a vitamin) niacin.

It is known that having low cholesterol and low LDL, while great, BUT if HDL is low then there is a of coronary atery disease. High HDL level seems to be critical in preventing coronary problems. There's research to show that there's a place for longer duration exercise.

"Perhaps the most interesting finding from this study is the observation that the duration of exercise sessions - and not the frequency or intensity of exercise - correlated the best with rises in HDL levels. The investigators report that in research subjects exercising for at least 20 minutes, each additional 10-minute increase in exercise duration increased HDL levels by an additional 1.4 mg/dL."
(June, 2007)

So, it seems that Interval training over 40 minutes IS the answer to cardio improvement AND increasing HDL.

It would be great to get together and talk about these issues. Hunting or just hanging out. I am often asked if I miss good ole Texas B-B-Q. I kid about it but, no, not really. Of course, I do not eat red meat anymore. However, I guess I am fortunate in that I can eat almost anything so am not hung up on just one thing. Hey, a couple of frosty ones sounds great -- there's some evidence that show a couple may be good for ya (increases HDL) and an excellent stress-reducer!!

j
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top