Hey I am Joe and i am looking some some weight loss advice

hawlkeye

hawlkeye

New member
Hello I am Joe, i am 24 years old, male, 6,4 tall and 435 pounds. my doctor told me I need to start losing weight and recommended a 1200 calorie diet. I have read online that a 1500 calorie diet is good for losing weight so I decided to go with that instead. my question is, on a 1500 calorie diet how active a week do I need to be to lose weight? (side note I am not very active right now and get fatigued quickly)
 
Hi Joe,

Welcome to the community.

I'll be frank... it's appalling that your doctor would suggest such a thing. And I'm not one to speak so vehemently against a doctor's advice since I'm not fully aware of the patient's situation. Plus, they obviously know a lot more about health than I do. But unless you're literally on your death bed, I don't see any scenario where advising you to totally flip the script on your life makes any sense.

The vast majority of doctors aren't well versed in nutrition and weight loss. I have doctors in my family and it's pretty crazy how little they know, actually. They constantly refer people to me (I'm a fitness coach)... or at a minimum... ask for my advice with certain patients.

Why do I find this doctor's advice appalling?

Because behavior change, habit, mindset, and emotions are not new areas of research. We know, pretty darn well, that directing someone to literally flip a switch on their life - to go from leading a life that fully supports the maintenance of 435 lbs straight to a life that fully supports the maintenance of 150 lbs, or whatever - simply doesn't work.

Fat loss attempts fail to be sustained because of advice like this.

Sure, you might get scared into action. Or you might feel really motivated right now. Nothing against you... it's humans in general... but the chances are very very good that if you were to implement 1200, or even 1500 calories... plus add in new forms of exercise... you'd burn out in a few weeks. Or at least a few months. And most of the time, when this happens, people wind up gaining enough weight to leave them weighing more than when they initially started the diet.

So what would I suggest?

If you really feel strongly by counting calories (taking the numerical approach to nutrition), than I'd suggesting taking a systematic and incremental approach to creating a calorie deficit. Find (or estimate) your maintenance... that calorie intake that maintains your current weight. And then cut 15-25% off of that. I assure you, this won't be anywhere near 1200 or even 1500 calories. The bigger you are, the higher your maintenance is.

I have multiple clients who are over 400 lbs and their maintenances range anywhere from 3500 to 5500 calories!

So if you were to carve 25% off of this range, the targeted intake range would be 2600 to 4100 calories. And yes, I've watched large clients lose plenty of weight on these sorts of intakes. What's more is...

a) It's not such a violent and forced change from where they are. It's more comfortable and thus more sustainable. Again, the jackhammer approach rarely works long term. This should be about coaxing change... not forcing it.

b) It leaves plenty of room to adjust things as your body adapts. Fat loss isn't a linear process and you can't set it and forget it. It takes ongoing management of things as time wears on. If you were to drop right to 1200-1500 calories... you aren't left with a lot of room to manage things going forward.

My opinion in most cases like yours is to NOT worry about calories, actually. I sooner focus on building skills. I have my clients envision what sort of skills the best version of themselves would have. These might be:

  • drink less soda and more water
  • eat satiating meals without snacking
  • basing meals on protein and fibrous veggies/fruits
  • eating only when hungry
  • stopping meals when satisfied rather than full
  • experiencing emotions rather than feeding them
  • eating primarily whole, satiating foods with a minimal portion coming from processed junk
On and on it goes. I could rattle off a dozen more skills/habits. But I have the client pick one that really resonates with them. That they feel they really can make some changes with right now And then we scale the skill/habit to meet them where they are. For example, a few months ago a 455 lb woman hired me. After talking about all this stuff, she was pretty confident that her biggest problem that she feels confident about changing right now is drinking less soda and red bull. She was drinking 10 of these beverages per day! That's an insane amount of calories over the course of a month and it's really no mater that she can't manage her weight.

We started with the target habit of drinking 5 per day. I helped her pick the habit. She picked the quantity. It's important to meet her where she is... and she had to play an active role in that!

Today, only a few months later, she's down 25 lbs. For most of this time, all we really focused on was paying attention to less liquid calories. We also worked in two 15 minute sessions of exercise eventually. And the habit of journaling for 5 minutes every morning to start working on the mindset side of things.

She doesn't count. She doesn't measure. She simply focuses on skills.

So I'm rambling a lot I'm sure... but you have options. Plenty of options really. Of course a very aggressive approach like your doctor is suggesting is still an option. But I would seriously consider a gentler approach to all of this if you have any attention of keeping the results you experience.

How do you feel about all of this?
 
i am going to take your advice. i like it better then just all of a sudden reducing my calorie intake to 1200
 
hawlkeye said:
i am going to take your advice. i like it better then just all of a sudden reducing my calorie intake to 1200
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Glad to hear that.

Where do you think it makes the most sense to start in your particular case?
 
Well I plan to cut out some calories and stop drinking soda as much as I do now, go on two 30 minute walks a day, and that will be my start.
 
hawlkeye said:
Well I plan to cut out some calories and stop drinking soda as much as I do now, go on two 30 minute walks a day, and that will be my start.
Click to expand...

Great start! You might consider checking out this neat little app called Habit Bull. It helps you track habits like what we're discussing here. It's free, too.
 
Weight loss is very simple. However it is very hard. We are accustomed to so many food that are detrimental to our health.
There is a huge picture other then just calories
Eliminating all foods that cause inflammation
Such as soy. Corn , wheat, sugar ect and all their byproducts. Remove those things and you really start seeing improvement
 
Corey Brown said:
Weight loss is very simple. However it is very hard. We are accustomed to so many food that are detrimental to our health.
There is a huge picture other then just calories
Eliminating all foods that cause inflammation
Such as soy. Corn , wheat, sugar ect and all their byproducts. Remove those things and you really start seeing improvement
Click to expand...

No offense to Corey, but this is the sort of excessively rigid and extreme tactics I'm referring to. Dictating to someone that they need to eliminate mass parts of their diet in one fell swoop fails in almost all cases. At least when given more than a handful of months to test. Plus, it's just massively unnecessary. There are better approaches to teasing lasting change out of yourself - mentally and physically.
 
Steve said:
No offense to Corey, but this is the sort of excessively rigid and extreme tactics I'm referring to. Dictating to someone that they need to eliminate mass parts of their diet in one fell swoop fails in almost all cases. At least when given more than a handful of months to test. Plus, it's just massively unnecessary. There are better approaches to teasing lasting change out of yourself - mentally and physically.
Click to expand...
No offense taken and I totally understand what you are saying. In fact that is an approach I took with many clients I trained and myself included. However if you do not address the inflammation and the causes of it don't expect long term success. Do some research on how a healthy fat cells is supposed to function. Then research how a inflamed fat cells works. It is eye opening and easy to see unless you address your inflammation you are keeping your body from being able to help you lose weight. Think arthritis and how that effects ones joints and movement, now move that same debility to every single fat cell.
Yes it is an extreme step but when taken properly it also address the cravings, the feeling of always being hungry.
For me and my current clients that is huge.
Think how great it would be to say I never even want _______
Fill in the blank.
For me it was chips and fried anything and pop and beer.
After one week of addressing my inflammation problem and the causes of it I don't have any desire for any of those.
It took me 25 years of trying everything to get those cravings in check. It was as simple as getting the inflammation under control
 
I'm happy you were able to find a way that works for you. I really am. And if you're seamlessly helping all of your clients lose weight effortlessly by eliminating all of those things... and they're experiencing the same phenomenal results in just a matter of week or so... that's awesome.

While you seem to have implied that I haven't "done some research," I've been at this coaching thing for going on 16 years. And I've been an evidenced-based practitioner for most of that time. I can't say I've found a way to, across the board, change peoples' brain chemistry, endocrine systems, beliefs, rituals, self-narratives, etc. by some special combination of foods/eliminations. And admittedly I'm pretty damn skeptical of anyone who says that they have. But I'll take your word for it and, again, simply congratulate you for finding a system that jives with you so well.

That inflammation plays a role for some people isn't so much a question of mine. I believe that it does and a diet that promotes lowering whole-body inflammation is likely a good idea. But for what it's worth... I've had plenty of clients come to me NOT eating soy, corn, wheat, sugar, etc who were struggling and at their last straws. So it's most certainly not a cure all. I'm not suggesting that you're promoting it as a cure all... but anytime someone comes at someone asking questions on a forum and immediately spouts off about a special combo of foods to eat without understanding the human side of things and the individual context involved... it tends to elicit some head scratching from me.

And genuinely... I'm intending no offense here. In fact, I'm a student first... practitioner second. I would love to see the peer-reviewed RCTs that have brought you to a place where you're so confident in your singular diet strategy that you will recommend it to someone before really digging into their individual factors. Which, put differently, implies that you believe it's the One True Way. If you can recommend it without really knowing the individual context involved... it can be nothing else in your opinion. At least I don't think.

Care to provide the specific publications that have brought you to this place? I'd love to take a look at them to better understand your position.
 
Sure I have some references. I will try and post them here if it will let me. I can also email them to you as well. My weight almost killed me a few times so I took my research to a life ambition level.
I also didn't mean to imply you didn’t know what you are saying and I truly hope I can provide information that will help people lose weight.
Chilton, Floyd, et. al. “Mechanisms by Which Botanical Lipids Affect Inflammatory Disorders.” American Journal of Clinical Investigation 87 (2008): 4985– 5035. ajcn.nutrition.org/ content/ 87/ 2/ 498S.full. The Christian Broadcasting Network . “A Silent Killer in Our Midst.” www.cbn.com/ health/ naturalhealth/drsears_silentkiller.aspx. Cildir, Gökhan, Semih Can Akincilar, and Vinay Tergaonkar. “Chronic Adipose Tissue Inflammation: All Immune Cells on the Stage.” Trends in Molecular Medicine 19 (2013 ): 487–500. doi: 10.1016/ j.molmed. 2013.05.001. Coppack, Simon W. “Pro-inflammatory Cytokines and Adipose Tissue.” Proceedings of the Nutrition Society 60 (2001): 349– 356. doi: 10.1079/ PNS2001110. Egger, Garry. “Obesity, Chronic Disease, and Economic Growth: A Case for ‘Big Picture’ Prevention.” Advances in Preventative Medicine 2011 (2011): 1– 6. doi: 10.4061/ 2011/ 149158. Greenberg, Andrew S., and Martin S. Obin. “Obesity and the Role of Adipose Tissue in Inflammation and Metabolism.” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 83 (2006): 461S –465S. ajcn.nutrition.org/ content/ 83/ 2/ 461S.full. Gregor, Margaret F., and Gökhan S. Hotamisligil. “Inflammatory Mechanisms in Obesity.” Annual Review of Immunology 29 (2011): 415– 445. doi: 10.1146/ annurev-immunol– 031210– 101322. Horng, Tiffany, and Gökhan S. Hotamisligil. “Linking the Inflammasome to Obesity-Related Disease.” Nature Medicine 17 (2011): 164– 165. 211.144.68.84: 9998/ 91keshi/ Public/File/ 39/ 17– 2/ pdf/ nm0211– 164. pdf. Johnson, Amy R., J. Justin Milner, and Liza Makowski. “The Inflammation Highway: Metabolism Accelerates Inflammatory Traffic in Obesity.” Immunological Reviews 249 (2012): 218– 238. doi: 10.1111/ j. 1600–065X. 2012.01151. x. Lumeng, Cary N., and Alan R. Saltiel. “Inflammatory Links Between Obesity and Metabolic Disease .” Journal of Clinical Investigation 121 (2011): 2111– 2117. doi: 10.1172/ JCI57132. Mayo Clinic . “What Is New in Adipose Tissue?” www.mayoclinic.org/ medical- professionals/ clinical-updates/ endocrinology/ what-new-adipose-tissue. McArdle, Maeve A., Orla M. Finucane, Ruth M. Connaughton, Aoibheann M. McMorrow, and Helen M. Roche. “Mechanisms of Obesity-Induced Inflammation and Insulin Resistance: Insights into the Emerging Role of Nutritional Strategies.” Frontiers in Endocrinology 4 (2013): 1– 23. doi: 10.3389/ fendo. 2013.00052. Methodist Hospital, Houston. “Obesity Makes Fat Cells Act Like They’re Infected.” ScienceDaily. www.sciencedaily.com/ releases/ 2013/ 03/ 130305145145. htm. Nishimura, Satoshi, Ichiro Manabe, and Ryozo Nagai. “Adipose Tissue Inflammation in Obesity and Metabolic Syndrome.” Discovery Medicine 17 (2014). www.discoverymedicine.com/ Satoshi-Nishimura/ 2009/ 09/ 22/ adipose-tissue-inflammation-in-obesity-and- metabolic-syndrome/. Pandey, A. K., G. Pandey, S. S. Pandey , and B. L. Pandey. “Human Biology of Diet and Lifestyle Linked Chronic Inflammatory Non-Communicable Disease Epidemic— A Review.” Human Biology Review 3 (2014): 25–42. Paresh Dandona, Ahmad Aljada, and Arindam Bandyopadhyay. “Inflammation: The Link Between Insulin Resistance, Obesity and Diabetes.” Trends in Immunology 25 (2004): 4– 7. doi: 10.1016/ j.it. 2003.10.013. Science Codex. “Body Fat Stored in the Liver, Not the Belly, Is the Best Indicator of Disease.” www.sciencecodex.com/ fat_in_the_liver_not_the_belly_is_a_better_marker_for_disease_risk. Sears, Barry. Toxic Fat. Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2008. Sun, Shengyi, Yewei Ji, Sander Kersten, and Lind Qi. “Mechanisms of Inflammatory Responses in Obese Adipose Tissue.” Annual Review of Nutrition 32 (2012): 261– 286. doi: 10.1146/ annurev-nutr– 071811–150623. University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. “First Link Found Between Obesity, Inflammation and Vascular Disease.” ScienceDaily. www.sciencedaily.com/ releases/ 2005/ 09/ 050917085024. htm. Wellen, Kathryn E., and Gökhan S. Hotamisligil. “Obesity-Induced Inflammatory Changes in Adipose Tissue.” Journal of Clinical Investigation 112 (2003): 1785– 1788. doi: 10.1172/ JCI20514.
Wisse, Brent E. “The Inflammatory Syndrome: The Role of Adipose Tissue Cytokines in Metabolic Disorders Linked to Obesity.” Frontiers in Nephrology 15 (2004): 2792– 2800. doi: 10.1097/ 01. ASN. 0000141966.69934.21. Xu, H., et. al. “Chronic Inflammation in Fat Plays a Crucial Role in the Development of Obesity-Related Insulin Resistance.” Journal of Clinical Investigation 112 (2003): 1821– 1830. doi: 10.1172/ JCI19451. Zhang, W.-J., L.-L. Chen, J. Zheng, L. Lin, J.- Y. Zhang, and X. Hu. “Association of Adult Weight Gain and Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver in a Cross-Sectional Study in Wan Song Community, China.” Brazilian Journal of Medical and Biological Research 47 (2014). doi: 10.1590/ 1414–431X20133058. Ziccardi, Patrizia, Francesco Nappo, Giovanni Giugliano, et al. “Reduction of Inflammatory Cytokine Concentrations and Improvement of Endothelial Functions in Obese Women After Weight Loss Over One Year.” Circulation 105 (2002): 804–809. doi: 10.1161/ hc0702.104279.
 
Steve said:
Thanks!

Quick question for you. Where did you copy this reference list from?
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I got it out of my digital library.
I understand you want to make sure people are not misinformed. I feel the same way. While managing Anytime Fitness there was always someone trying to sell the next great thing. However I don't charge anyone I train. I have a successful coffee roasting business. I just want to help people lose weight once and for all. If I can help do that for people it is my privilege.
However I doubt our discussion is helping Joe with his goals and I do not want this to add any confusion or frustration for anyone.
 
Meh, after over 17,000 posts on this community... if I've learned one thing I've learned that people tend to learn from civil exchanges like this. They actually prefer to see it for what it is... a learning opportunity. So long as nobody resorts to red herrings and strawman arguments... it tends to be a pretty productive platform for this sort of thing. That said... if you'd prefer, we can save this convo for a rainy day. I might privately message you if you don't mind after I've looked through your citations.

I've gone through a handful of them and from what I'm seeing... most of what's posted isn't directly correlated to the position you're taking or it's merely observational. And some of them are straight op ed... like the one from the Christian Broadcasting Network and good ole' Dr. Sears.

Although it's not an actual study, I wouldn't mind reading the full paper to your 3rd citation. I'm referring to this one. I assume you've read and have it? If so, it'd be nice if you could send me a copy of it.

Also, I didn't see this in your reference list but seems like a paper you might be interested in.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/222/3/R113.full
 
hawlkeye said:
Well I plan to cut out some calories and stop drinking soda as much as I do now, go on two 30 minute walks a day, and that will be my start.
Click to expand...

How's the soda habit coming along buddy?
 
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