Global Warming topic :D

W

Woodt

0
Well boys, girls, men, women. There seems to be the ever growing groan in our ears regarding global warming, so I decided lets make a topic about it! Firstly, do you believe in global warming? I do, but I know a few people in particular who say that the world is naturally rising in temperature. Secondly, do you think it can be stopped? See, the problem is, we are told to cut down on doing this and that, and you think "great, I'm doing my part". But as I learnt in depth a few years back in my good old science class, when I was around 10, Britain is only 1% of the worlds greenhouse gas emitions, and China are opening a nuclear/coal/whatever, plant every day/couple of days, which completely renders your energy saving useless.

However, I though today to myself, do you think it's possible that fast developing countries could find a solution to the problems, if they can freely burn the gases?

So my thinking about something other than food/sex/sleep/the fly on the wall - has been finished for the day. Anyone want to give their views etc. ;)
 
I have never seen conclusive evidence* that the earth is "overheating". The ice caps may be melting, and ski season may have been shorter this year, but on the opposite side of the spectrum, we also had a little something called the "Ice Age" a few thousand years ago. To me, it seems natural for weather to fluctuate over time, so I don't see the need to hop on the Global Warming train.

*Al Gore's "Politically Convenient Lies" doesn't count as conclusive evidence.
 
well, our pollution certanly doesnt help. We know that certain gasses we let out effects the greenhouse effect. Im not saying there arent natrual fluctationes in the global wheather, there probobly is, but we are probobly making it worse too.
 
There is a lot to the Earth and how it functions. We definitely don't do it any favors, that's for sure. But, they can't seem to actually prove that we are causing this. There seems to be just as much evidence to show that it is yet another of many natural cycles of the Earth.
 
deschain said:
There is a lot to the Earth and how it functions. We definitely don't do it any favors, that's for sure. But, they can't seem to actually prove that we are causing this. There seems to be just as much evidence to show that it is yet another of many natural cycles of the Earth.
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Agreed 100%. + rep for you...

I think the concern is being amplified by the constant media attention it's been receiving. There really is no evidence to validate all of the uproar that it has caused for some.
 
deschain said:
There is a lot to the Earth and how it functions. We definitely don't do it any favors, that's for sure. But, they can't seem to actually prove that we are causing this. There seems to be just as much evidence to show that it is yet another of many natural cycles of the Earth.
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We know how the substances we let out reacts with those already in the atmosphere. Thus we KNOW we play a part in it. I think its rather ignorant to just ignore all the evidence and say its all because of a natrual cycle.
 
It does not really matter if we contribute. Asia, which is growing at an exponential rate, and has few pollution laws, will soon be producing more than the rest of the world. (specifically China and India, growing a lot, buying more and more cars, and thats about 1/2 of the worlds population).

We have to wait while their countries go through what we went through here in the states as the industrial revolution. It is going to be a little bit before these countries catch up. This is a world problem, but most countries are not equipped to make change like we are in N. America and Europe.
 
goergen1 said:
It does not really matter if we contribute. Asia, which is growing at an exponential rate, and has few pollution laws, will soon be producing more than the rest of the world. (specifically China and India, growing a lot, buying more and more cars, and thats about 1/2 of the worlds population).

We have to wait while their countries go through what we went through here in the states as the industrial revolution. It is going to be a little bit before these countries catch up. This is a world problem, but most countries are not equipped to make change like we are in N. America and Europe.
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That does not mean we should not at least start the process. Hell, Bush instead of allowing a new law to pass about a year or two ago. That would essentially place ALLOT more pressure on big corporations to cut down on pollution allowed them another 20 YEARS before they need to start bothering with what should have been started a year or two ago when the bill first came.

Of course, nothing will be done against the cooperations profits. Global warming doesn't mean crap to a multi billionaire. Until someone can find profit in "lowering" pollution output there will be NOTHING done.
 
That does not mean we should not at least start the process.
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I'm not saying that we should not start the process. Only that pollution is going to go up, worldwide, before it goes down.

Of course, nothing will be done against the cooperations profits. Global warming doesn't mean crap to a multi billionaire. Until someone can find profit in "lowering" pollution output there will be NOTHING done.
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:rolleyes: Everyone wants to blame the "big corporations." The bulk of our air pollution comes from you and me driving our cars around every day. I gotta say that I am not going to stop driving. Are you?

Other things that I do to increase air pollution.

1. Have things delivered to my house.

2. Buy things that are delivered to stores that I frequent.

3. Fly when it is more convenient.

4. Put gas in my car, which is trucked to the gas station.

5. Play on boats in the summer.

6. Have the lawn mowed.

7. Mail letters.

8. take hot showers.

9. Run my heat.

10. Run my air conditioning.

The list goes on. The buck really stops with us as individuals. As bad as it sounds, I will not be changing my life all that much.

Those billionaires you are talking about, are wealthy because they provide jobs, to people that drive to work every day, and live a similar lifestyle to myself.

As much as everyone wants to pretend that making laws and legislation will help, it will not. There will be solutions, those solutions are the continual development of alternative energy sources. These are a bit out as well, since most are less "powerful" (for lack of a better word), and more expensive.

I looked at putting solar panels on my last house. $25,000, it would take me living there 20 years to make up that cost. Since I have yet to live in a house longer than 3 years, it did not make sense.

I just thought that we should be taking responsibility for ourselves, before we start blaming corporations, and others.
 
goergen1 said:
I'm not saying that we should not start the process. Only that pollution is going to go up, worldwide, before it goes down.



:rolleyes: Everyone wants to blame the "big corporations." The bulk of our air pollution comes from you and me driving our cars around every day. I gotta say that I am not going to stop driving. Are you?

Other things that I do to increase air pollution.

1. Have things delivered to my house.

2. Buy things that are delivered to stores that I frequent.

3. Fly when it is more convenient.

4. Put gas in my car, which is trucked to the gas station.

5. Play on boats in the summer.

6. Have the lawn mowed.

7. Mail letters.

8. take hot showers.

9. Run my heat.

10. Run my air conditioning.

The list goes on. The buck really stops with us as individuals. As bad as it sounds, I will not be changing my life all that much.

Those billionaires you are talking about, are wealthy because they provide jobs, to people that drive to work every day, and live a similar lifestyle to myself.

As much as everyone wants to pretend that making laws and legislation will help, it will not. There will be solutions, those solutions are the continual development of alternative energy sources. These are a bit out as well, since most are less "powerful" (for lack of a better word), and more expensive.

I looked at putting solar panels on my last house. $25,000, it would take me living there 20 years to make up that cost. Since I have yet to live in a house longer than 3 years, it did not make sense.

I just thought that we should be taking responsibility for ourselves, before we start blaming corporations, and others.
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I agree, basically with what you said. Though remember the way we pollute and how much we pollute is largely based on the technology we are given. You force the big corporations to adapt to new restrictions and "push" them to come up with cleaner solutions. They will do it, which means products we use every day such as the car (among other things) which would drastically reduce pollution. However, we the individual can not change with what we currently have. Until the rich cats decide to offer us cleaner products at a practical price then there is not much we can realistically do.

It all has to start with the corporations. The products they make and the way they make them.
 
My dh works in an oil refinery. Where I live there are many oil refineries, as well as chemical plants.

They have very steep fines for flaring (that's when you see flames coming out of the flare stacks). There are numerous regulations that they adhere to when it comes to environmental policies. The days of dumping toxic crap into the ground while the gov't turns the other way are over. Don't get me wrong, bad things happen, but there are plenty of people watching every move and they don't hesitate to bust somebody's ass when it does.

There are monitors everywhere around the plants. They also have airplanes flying over taking readings daily, as well as people outside the gates taking readings. Some of these are from the refinery itself, some of them are from the gov't, and some are from environmental "watch dog" agencies.

The area I live in exists b/c of industry - everything here is tied to it somehow. They aren't allowed to just do as they please, trust me.
 
goergen1 said:
It does not really matter if we contribute. Asia, which is growing at an exponential rate, and has few pollution laws, will soon be producing more than the rest of the world. (specifically China and India, growing a lot, buying more and more cars, and thats about 1/2 of the worlds population).

We have to wait while their countries go through what we went through here in the states as the industrial revolution. It is going to be a little bit before these countries catch up. This is a world problem, but most countries are not equipped to make change like we are in N. America and Europe.
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well, by "we" i was reffering to the world in general :p
 
deschain said:
My dh works in an oil refinery. Where I live there are many oil refineries, as well as chemical plants.

They have very steep fines for flaring (that's when you see flames coming out of the flare stacks). There are numerous regulations that they adhere to when it comes to environmental policies. The days of dumping toxic crap into the ground while the gov't turns the other way are over. Don't get me wrong, bad things happen, but there are plenty of people watching every move and they don't hesitate to bust somebody's ass when it does.

There are monitors everywhere around the plants. They also have airplanes flying over taking readings daily, as well as people outside the gates taking readings. Some of these are from the refinery itself, some of them are from the gov't, and some are from environmental "watch dog" agencies.

The area I live in exists b/c of industry - everything here is tied to it somehow. They aren't allowed to just do as they please, trust me.
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I think we are from the same area Deschain. Are you from the Golden Triangle? I moved to Austin not too long ago but grew up there. My husband worked for Dupont/Invista for a while.
 
Woodt said:
The daily mail isn't a great paper really, specially not for that area.
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It was just the first article of many I came across so posted that one. There are many people who have reported the same thing. Some researchers have even said that the ice caps are increasing in overall size but changing in shape which is why we see images of some parts melting

Here's something I found on the subject

A study published in the American Meteorological Society's Journal of Climate (Yuan, X. and Martinson, D.G., "Antarctic sea ice extent variability and its global connectivity," Volume 13: 1697-1717 (2000)) demonstrated the Antarctic polar ice cap has been expanding. According to the study, 18 years of satellite data indicate the mean Antarctic sea ice edge has expanded by 0.011 degrees of latitude toward the equator each year.

A later study, also published in Journal of Climate (Watkins, A.B. and Simmonds, I., "Current trends in Antarctic sea ice: The 1990s impact on a short climatology," Volume 13: 4441-4451 (2000)) reached a similar conclusion. The study reported significant increases in Antarctic sea ice between 1987 and 1996. The study further indicated the 1990s exhibited increases in the length of the sea-ice season.
 
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This always seems to be such a "hot issue" discussion.
While I *do* believe in global warming and believe we are effecting (negatively) the earth's climate, I think the discussion could be taken in a whole different direction. We know we are releasing pollution into the air, which *may* affect climate. But we know that the pollution IS making people sick and killing people even. Many cities in the U.S. now have some amount of "unhealthy air days", where the government recommends we not exercise outdoors because of poor air quality. Surely, it is worth our effort to reduce pollution just in the interest of overall health.
 
dougp25 said:
This always seems to be such a "hot issue" discussion.
While I *do* believe in global warming and believe we are effecting (negatively) the earth's climate, I think the discussion could be taken in a whole different direction. We know we are releasing pollution into the air, which *may* affect climate. But we know that the pollution IS making people sick and killing people even. Many cities in the U.S. now have some amount of "unhealthy air days", where the government recommends we not exercise outdoors because of poor air quality. Surely, it is worth our effort to reduce pollution just in the interest of overall health.
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Yeah, that's probably pretty true, a recent report said that those still living in Chernobyl were healthier than Londoners.
 
CCR said:
Yeah, that's probably pretty true, a recent report said that those still living in Chernobyl were healthier than Londoners.
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OMG, I hope you are kidding!!! :eek:
 
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