Front Squat vs. Back Squat / RDLs

[jjldm321]

I have two questions about leg exercises.

1) Is there any benefit to front squats versus back squats? The only thing I've heard is that front squats are going to work your quads more and that you have to add in hamstring exercises, whereas back squats work your quads & hamstrings more equally. Is any of this true? Do they both work the legs the same, does it matter which one you do, is one more beneficial than the other, etc.

2) Someone mentioned to me that Romanian Dead Lifts are the best hamstring exercises they've every incorporated. Does anyone have any opinions on RDLs? Also, I was under the impression that traditional dead lifts worked the back primarily (with the glutes and legs being secondary muscles worked), so what makes RDLs so hamstring centric?

Thanks so much in advance for any advice you guys can give.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Front squats are a great accompaniment to back squats. They work the same muscles (virtually everything in the body) at different levels and some of this is personal. Personally I tend to do front squats narrower and with more knee bend than back squats which means I feel it more in the quads especially the lower end, and obliques. Back squat hits everything so evenly to me I don't really feel it anywhere specific, my whole body tells me I am working.

I tend to go for stiff leg deadlifts if I want emphasis on the hamstrings, elevated so the bar gets to the feet for the benefits of avoiding sanity.

You are looking at compound work here, which I am a big fan of, so you will be hitting most of your body in a number of exercises. This will not be totally even every exercise, and there is nothing wrong with this because balance is achieved as an overall program not through one movement.

 

[BasketLady]

I think there are pros and cons to both types of squats - however, there is definite risk to each as well. For a back squat, you need to make sure the bar is in the proper place, so you do not put any extra strain on your neck (or back) - for the front squat you need to make sure the extra weight is not pulling you forward and taking you out of alignment there. As COM mentioned above - a combination of both is a good option.

As for the RDL vs SDL - again, depends on your goals and your form! As with most exercises, perfect form makes a huge difference! They both are working very similar muscles (back, glutes, hams) - as they are both similar exercises. RDL hits the glutes a tad bit more and is used more in Olympic weightlifting.

With both types exercises, I would say try them and see how they feel for YOU - if you can execute all four listed above with perfect form - change it up every once in a while - your body, and your results will appreciate it

 

[Goldfish]

All things being equal, front squats don't work the quads more, they just work the posterior chain less. All things being equal of course means that the only thing you change is bar placement -- otherwise you're using the same stance and bending just as much at the hips and ankles. Front squats are harder and more technical than back squats, and you're more likely to fail on them as a result of your core giving out than your legs giving out. Having the bar in front of your body forces you into a more upright posture, which is what causes the difference: a more upright posture reduces the amount of hip flexion and extension going on, which decreases the load in the glutes and hamstrings. This makes them more quad-dominant, but again this is because the posterior chain is doing less, not because the quads are positioned to do more work. In order for front squats to specifically increase quad activation, you're really looking at a change in how you position your feet and whether you're squatting up and down or sitting back and driving your hips forward (see CrazyOldMan's post above). Personally, I think high bar back squats are a better exercise for most people than front squats, because they load the quads in the same way while increasing hip ROM thus increasing glute/ham work.

Conventional deadlifts train everything, but it should be your glutes that are the driving force there, not your back. RDLs and SLDLs should also use high amounts of glute drive. RDLs put an intense stretch on the hamstrings; I eventually progressed to SLDLs when I got to the point that the bar was hitting the floor before that stretch would come about (my SLDLs are essentially RDLs with a dead stop at the bottom, but there's more than one way to do it). RDLs and SLDLs work the hamstrings pretty intensely because keeping the knees back and hinging at the hips means that without using body English you're going to really almost exclusively on hip extension to come back up, and that's performed by the glutes and hamstrings (more hamstrings at the bottom and glutes at the top for lockout). The greater amount of knee bend in conventional deadlifts takes the slack out of the hamstrings, decreases hip ROM and brings your quadriceps into the movement more.

I wouldn't say any deadlift variation is the best thing for hamstrings. They're all really good for hamstrings, but while all hip extension exercises work the hamstrings, not all of the hamstrings are worked by hip extension. You really need some form of leg curl to work all of the hamstrings, because all hamstrings cause knee flexion. Don't take this to mean that deadlifts/RDLs/SLDLs aren't good -- they're great exercises and I highly recommend doing 1 or 2 of them in your program. But if you're only looking at the hamstrings, they do miss a little bit.

 

[Jrahien]

As Goldfish said, front squats are going to require a much more upright posture, which I like because it makes it impossible to cheat by leaning forward like people so often do with back squats. (This is the reason why I tend to ensure proper front squat technique in people before adding many back squats to their programs.) That being said, the exercise requires more core and extensor strength to maintain the posture.

With that in mind, front squats will be more challenging than back squats and you won't be able to lift as much weight. So, if you're shooting for more functional leg and trunk strength in good balance, I would recommend front squatting. If you're wanting the focus to be more on legs, then the back squat is the way to go. (I use both.)

One other thing I like about the front squat, though, is that it can be safer in case your muscles fail. It's easy to drop the weight when you're holding out in front of you, but you might get stuck with it on your back. (God-bless Youtube gym fails.)

 

[CrazyOldMan]

The failed squat, the reason I have my rack set to have the catchers an inch or two below the bottom of my movement. Training to failure means failing which is usually at the point where you want to shift from down to back up.

 

[Goldfish]

Jrahien raises some really good points about the uses of different squat variations. My recommendation of back squats > front squats was mostly just looking at muscular involvement, but there's more to fitness than muscle mass, and there's more to an exercise than how much/what muscles are being used.

Another important point raised was how people do some funky body English with back squats to get up when the weight becomes more than they can handle. The typical "squatmorning" (a squat that becomes a goodmorning) happens when people lack either the strength, confidence or discipline to keep their torso as upright as it should be. For some reason, the internet tends to believe that the solution to this problem is doing actual goodmornings, because it'll strengthen your posterior chain, and going from a squat to a squatmorning means a sudden shift in knee extension, so by their logic the quads must be strong and the back weak. The opposite is usually true, however: the quads aren't strong enough to move the weight, so without moving the weight the knees extend to kick you back into a goodmorning position, where you've now got the strength to move the weight. So the typical solution prescribed online isn't actually helping at all. Front squats, on the other hand, teach you to stay upright and they make your quads strong, enabling you to stay more upright in back squats.

If I'm going to fail a squat, it's usually going to be about 1/3 of the way up. That 90degree knee angle everyone loves is about a quarter of an inch above my sticking point. Once you get past that point, the weight flies up.