Sport For the Berardi fans

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evolution

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I thought I'd have a bit of fun with this.

Berardi is a huge advocate of P+F/P+C. He outlines to get less than 10g of fat when consuming carbs and visa-versa. He also says that the insulin spikes from carbs will help to store fat if eating fat at the same time. He bases this off theoretical models without any studies to back up his claims.

...now I'm not saying Berardi is wrong. And I'm not a Berardi hater (I just love Lyle a lil' more). And there are quite a few people who have gotten great results with nutrient partioning.

However...when you add in protein, fat, and fiber aren't we negating a lot of the insulin spiking based on using the GI? And, in essence, doesn't this throw his theory of absolutes off a bit?

And I present to you that fructose is not the evilness that Berardi makes it out to be (ala Dan Duchane ;) )
 
Well Berardi isn't the only person I have read make arguments towards the separating of carbs and fats. I also don't go by everything that anyone says. I read tons of studies, research from various sources and determine for MYSELF what best applies, and what might best supply for each person that I may be giving advice to and then in the future working with.

When you are working with people who are say hypoglycemic they will have a more sensitivity to that combination without the aid of protein. "The recent study showed that having protein less of 15% of the overall breakdown lead to higher insulin spikes. It also suggests that 16 of the 23 studied gained weight regardless of being on a caloric restricted diet"

Okay so there is a chance those with sugar sensitives may benefit from not having a carb/fat meal. But its doesn't say anything about a Pro/carb/fat meal.

Now this study based on obesity people eating 1100 calories a day. Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland, 54 obese people ate a 1,100-calorie-per-day diet. Half of them ate carbs and fats together; the other half ate carbs and fats separately. After six weeks, both groups lost the same amount of weight.

Hmm so not for everyone then is this a issue, also though they were in an extreme deficit so how seriously can we take this study.

Lastly many studies have shown that simply eating a balance of all three together is the ultimate powerfood and keeps any spikes at bay.

Basically my point is to not hold any golden gods. For example some think that a banana is evil and will make you fat, I really don't think so. We should also fear carrots and corn. It's just silly. Cardio doesn't matter for fat loss and so forth. Most of it is based on loose studies and he said, she said.
I think there are some people along the way that have proven there are certain methods that work for a majority of people AND that are easy to implement and safe. These are the people and methods that I will bother repeating.

For me I have found best result with thus far tested of Pro/carb, Pro/Fat. It helps me not snack at night, it keeps my mood more level, and I get my fat and slow digesting protein at night for good muscle repair. So for me it works. However there are factors for me that I take into account...

-minor low blood sugar issues
-needing a strict set plan to lessen derailments
-keeps me full at a time I get most hungry
-less cooking at a time I have alot going on

So for me this works, however maybe one day I will try something else that blows this out of the water, and I am open to that.

Carb Cycling also works for me as well. Again thats me. **** I know guys who eat cereal and peanut butter with milk all day long and just really bust their ass for 2-3 hours and are 5% body fat. Who knows really when it comes to how each body works. I just know there is nothing dangerous about The Pro/carb, Pro/fat combo for the majority of people out there, and that it has showed time and again to work well in a program along with lifting and cardio.

I am always up for a read and gather new stuff and never think there is one answer for anything.
 
you bite your tongue when you say such words about Berardi. lol naw j/k

I think the man is very knowledgable.. and makes great points and has good facts to back himself up. However you did bring a a great point and if anyone would like to explain from Evo's statement I'd really be interested on there thoughts.
 
One thing that strikes me about Berardi is that he seems to be trying to reach out to the bad eating american newbs in the simplest terms.

i mean, if you think about it in plain terms, no C+F means you can have a dinner roll, but can't smear butter/margarine all over it. or, you can have your baked potato but no butter/sour cream/cheese smothering it.

People are diverse enough, that i'm sure some people put fat on easy if they mix carbs and fat...others, not so much. same reason some people can drink soda pop all day long and never gain an ounce of weight from it.

we all have unique metabolisms even though we're all made of the same stuff.
hell, the same is true of cars. you get 100 Chevy trucks come outta the same plant, and after 3 years, each will have developed different 'issues'...even with the same parts, same factory workers, etc.

So, I'm definitel agreeing that we can't hold anyone, Berardi, Cosgrove, McDonald, Udo, Bill Philips, Scott Connelly....on too high a pedestal.

better to soak in what you can from each, try their various approaches and then run with what seems to work best for YOU.

some people function great on a ketogenic diet. when my carbs go below 140g a day, I get cranky, tired, and my brain runs like a 386 processor.
(whoops, I geeked out a little there)
 
Ohhhh, c'mon. Malk, you and Leip aren't offering any hawt screaming arguments. Sheesh! ;)

Oh, and Malk, I think most of hte time studies suck but I've read several that said the body adapts to a lowered carb intake after ~30 days. So, you'd just have to be grouchy and mean for a month.

Brahma...like I said, it's not that I don't like Berardi, I just think...well, I've just become less impressed with him as opposed to when I first started reading Berardi and the t-nation crew and thought they were best thing since sliced bread.
 
evolution said:
Brahma...like I said, it's not that I don't like Berardi, I just think...well, I've just become less impressed with him as opposed to when I first started reading Berardi and the t-nation crew and thought they were best thing since sliced bread.
Click to expand...

Don't take it as if I'm a hardcore Berardi fan. lol I was just messin. My own belief is that this guy has already accomplished a reputation whereas if he were to say an egg white contains as much protein as mcdonalds fry... all the people that look up to him would be boycottin egg whites. Its good that he gets questioned on his statements.
 
I've never read any of the articles from the above mentioned people however I have tried both methods of eating and the seperation method works best for me.
 
Berardi never really interested me. A few years ago, just about everyone on the Men's Health board was giving E-fellatio to him about his Massive Eating and his post-workout articles. I read them over and over and just never got what was so special.

Years later, it turns out there was nothing special about them and they haven't held up well. For me, Alan Aragon is the man to look to along with Lyle McDonald.
 
From what I've heard, it is solid. One can argue that just as good info can be gotten elsewhere but I haven't read that anyone who bought it who wasn't satisfied with it.

I kinda had to laugh that I was signed up for his email updates and now they're just mostly links to the PN message board. But you can't read the message board unless you bought the PN program.

I guess it's a marketing strategy ;)
 
I didnt start loosing weight untill I learned about seperation.
But I only do it when im cutting.

I find that seperating carbs and fat is far to impractical when bulking, and I'd have to spend more time with a calculator than actually eatting!

I read the PN program, after a mate of mine signed up and printed it all out.
I really liked it, but there was only a couple of things that I didnt already know. But its great for people who dont know how to do the research on their own.
 
I think that is very true....what was said.....never hold anyone as the "guru of all gurus"....for the most part only an idiot would call himself or herself a guru anyway. When it comes to Berardi, it is not just the fact that he has the great ideas and not so great ideas about macronutrients and meal timing, BUT Berardi does most of his studies INDEPENDENTLY. He actually makes his own independent clinical trials. This is pretty huge compared to pros who pull there studies form other peoples studies. I remember when he first came on to T-nation (back then T-mag) and he had some INSANE idea that we need to consume more of the right foods to gain mass and later lose fat ("Appetite for Construction"). At first, most people thought the high caloric intakes would just make a person fat and people who wanted to get shredded shouldn't eat more than 2000 calories a day. For those who have seen, the feedback later and testimonials from t-nation guys and gals, the results where pretty damn impressive.

Also, I have yet to find someone or heard of anyone that the macronutrient formula Berardi uses has not worked. His sutff works great. There are some studies that may prove him wrong in a clinical study in a village is finland or whatever.....but you gotta give the guy credit for his valuable info.
 
The reasoning is that the insulin spike stops lipolysis, so then with fat being 9cals/g, the body stores the extra as fat, just as it would protein calories and carb calories.

His whole system is designed around a low carb methodology, which I'm following. The only time I eat grain or simple carbs is pre and post workout, else, all my carbs come from vegetables.

Low carb doesn't work for everyone, but I know it works for me, having done atkins and losing 42lbs. Now I'm going to appraoch it more sensibly.
 
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Does anyone have one of his nutritian charts. Apparently there is a small credit card sized card with all the info needed when planning meals.

I was just interested to know what one would look like, what info it had and if it was just a gimic or acctually useful.
 
I have his Precision Nutrition system, but I don't recall a cedit card sized cheat sheet.

However, when i get home, I'll post the 10 habits.
 
Cynic said:
The reasoning is that the insulin spike stops lipolysis, so then with fat being 9cals/g, the body stores the extra as fat, just as it would protein calories and carb calories.

His whole system is designed around a low carb methodology, which I'm following. The only time I eat grain or simple carbs is pre and post workout, else, all my carbs come from vegetables.

Low carb doesn't work for everyone, but I know it works for me, having done atkins and losing 42lbs. Now I'm going to appraoch it more sensibly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I realize that part. It's just his system tends to deal a lot with absolutes. He runs off the premise that mixing carbs+fats=bad because insulin spikes mixed with fat can cause fat storage. That's fine. But when you add in fat, fiber, and protein, the GI of food kinda' changes A LOT and the big insulin spike isn't so big anymore. I don't know if I'd call his system is a low carb (ala Atkins) approach.

He has changed quite a bit. I remember his first articles had it okay to mix fat and carbs and as time passed, a lot of that changed.

In the end, I wonder...
if I'm eating X calories putting me in a deficit
if nutrient consumption is the same
if meal frequency is at 4-6 meals a day
will seperating fats and carbs make a difference over not seperating?

I'd say no
but then I can't say I've gotten any better results off either approach. Maybe I should take 6 weeks and run an experiment on myself with bf% done at the end with nutrient partioning and nutrient timing.
 
I got great results from Atkins. I went from 211lbs to 169lbs in five months. I haven't been doing too good with calorie counting.

I'm going back to a sensible low-carb approach.
 
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