Sport ?? for Berardi fans...caloric intake

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herbally

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I followed John Berardi's article titled "Massive Eating Part I:Calorie Calculation" to determine the number of calories needed to gain muscle.
John Berardi - Massive Eating Part I
Using his formula's, I determined that I need roughly 4500 calories per day to achieve a caloric surplus.

Here is my problem. Everything that I've read suggests that 1-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight is optimal for muscle growth. If I were trying to hit a 40:30:30 ratio of protein:carb:fat at 4500 calories, I would need to ingest 450g of protein in order to hit 40% protein.

The problem with that is that I only weigh 165lbs. So, if I were to consume 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight I would only be eating 247.5g of protein which is considerably less than 450 (which btw is 2.73g of protein per pound of bodyweight).

So, I'm confused as to how to handle this discrepancy. Do I throw the 1.5g per pound of body weight out the window and just focus on my 4500 calories at the 40:30:30 ratio or should I alter the ratio so that I hit somewhere between the target of 1-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight?

Sorry for the lengthy post! All help is greatly appreciated!
 
450g sounds like a lot of protein. so does 40% of total cals
 
Thanks for the input Karky. I thought so too. Hense the confusion. What kind of ratio you using in a bulk? 30:40:30 pro:carb:fat? Even at that with 4500 cals I'd need 337.5g which is something like 2.05g per pound of bodyweight.
 
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herbally said:
I followed John Berardi's article titled "Massive Eating Part I:Calorie Calculation" to determine the number of calories needed to gain muscle.
John Berardi - Massive Eating Part I
Using his formula's, I determined that I need roughly 4500 calories per day to achieve a caloric surplus.

Here is my problem. Everything that I've read suggests that 1-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight is optimal for muscle growth. If I were trying to hit a 40:30:30 ratio of protein:carb:fat at 4500 calories, I would need to ingest 450g of protein in order to hit 40% protein.

The problem with that is that I only weigh 165lbs. So, if I were to consume 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight I would only be eating 247.5g of protein which is considerably less than 450 (which btw is 2.73g of protein per pound of bodyweight).

So, I'm confused as to how to handle this discrepancy. Do I throw the 1.5g per pound of body weight out the window and just focus on my 4500 calories at the 40:30:30 ratio or should I alter the ratio so that I hit somewhere between the target of 1-1.5g of protein per pound of body weight?

Sorry for the lengthy post! All help is greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

Why not simply shoot for 1 g of protein per pound of body weight ( or, lean body weight if you like ) instead - which is about 15% of total calories ?

Keep your 30% from fats and plug the remaining 55% to come from carbs.
 
Thanks for the reply wrangell! I'm not opposed to that, but I guess that just seemed like entirely too much carbs. Then again, I'm no expert which is why I came here for assistance.
 
herbally said:
Thanks for the reply wrangell! I'm not opposed to that, but I guess that just seemed like entirely too much carbs. Then again, I'm no expert which is why I came here for assistance.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you think it is possible to have " too much " in carbs when wanting to add a lot of calories. What do you define as being " to much " exactly ? Can you elaborate ?

You have to remember, carbs are not fattening. Excess calories are. So excess carbs beyond what your body needs are just as ' fattening ' as excess fat and excess protein is. So, there is nothing wrong with the majority of your macronutrients coming from carbs when trying to train hard to add muscle mass. You're correct to want a lot of calories - i.e 4,500 - when trying to add mass. And carbs ( especially from complex carbs - with the possible exception of post workout carbs ) are your best source of getting those additional calories that your hard training requires IMO.

Also, keep in mind that weight training and intense cardio ( i.e like HIIT ) use carb based energy ( glucose / glucogen ) as primary sources of energy - so you actually need carbs for energy. Beyond that, if you keep your protein calories to somewhere around 20% +/- of total calories, fat at 30% +/-...with the remainder coming from carbs you should be in good shape IMO.
 
LOL...I don't know either! I guess the carb craze took over my subconscious mind. Like I said though, I don't know too much about bulking as this'll be my first. I guess I'll follow your advise and try to stay around the 1g or a little more protein per lb bodyweight and fill the remainder with carbs.

Thanks for the replies!
 
MarkMyWords said:
Isn't 4500 calories excessive if you only weigh 165 pounds? Seems like you could eat 1000 less and still add mass.
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Actually, in Lou Schuler's book " The New Rules of Lifting " he cites some academic findings that suggest a ' rule of thumb ' for how many calories strength athletes should take when it comes to issues of muscle mass. The findings he cites suggests....


- to simply maintain muscle mass : 20 calories per pound of bodyweight

- to ADD muscle mass : 25 - 30 calories per pound of bodyweight​


' herbally ' weighs 165 lbs.

So, if the research has any validity, they would suggest he take in anywhere from 4,125 calories to 4,950 calories if he wants to gain mass in an optimal manner ...........so 4,500 seems to fit nicely somewhere in the middle of this range.
 
Fair enough, I was just checking. I am used to seeing "eat 500 calories over your maintence level" and you will have enough energy to build mass. I've always thought this to be sufficient, and it's the plan I am currently following. I'll be curious to see what kind of results the OP has.
 
MarkMyWords said:
Fair enough, I was just checking. I am used to seeing "eat 500 calories over your maintence level" and you will have enough energy to build mass. I've always thought this to be sufficient, and it's the plan I am currently following. I'll be curious to see what kind of results the OP has.
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Perhaps it's simply a matter of sufficient vs optimal. Like the logic many people apply to protein...if a little is good ......then a lot has to be better.:)

I keep seeing this 500 calorie factor bump cited on this forum quite a bit as well. But, when you actually think about , a calorie surplus ' over your maintenance level ' should be probably not be expressed as a fixed amount like 500 calories - but rather as a variable based on your weight. Much like protein grams - based on grams per pound of bodyweight. Going over by 500 calories for someone who weighs 135 is quite different than going over by 500 calories for someone who weighs 235. Perhaps instead of simply applying the 500 calorie surplus to all possible weight scenarios, it should be instead expressed as a % of your maintenance level - i.e 15% or 20%+ etc.
 
herbally, have you calculated your maintance calories with activity in mind? What have you calculated as your maintance calories per day?

I have read different rules for bulking from the very site that Bernardi makes articles for. Tnation is what i'm talking about.

In the article "the truth about bulking" Christian Thibadeau seems to suggest much less calories when on a bulk so that you don't become a fatass.

He says that the body can only build so much muscle per day so if you are force feeding yourself every day most of it will go to fat.

4500 calories sounds way too much to me. Let me know how this works for you, i'd be very interested in your body fat percentages and your weight gain over the course of a few weeks or months! PM me if you don't want to share it here please!
 
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realworksuks said:
herbally, have you calculated your maintance calories with activity in mind? What have you calculated as your maintance calories per day?

I have read different rules for bulking from the very site that Bernardi makes articles for. Tnation is what i'm talking about.

In the article "the truth about bulking" Christian Thibadeau seems to suggest much less calories when on a bulk so that you don't become a fatass.

He says that the body can only build so much muscle per day so if you are force feeding yourself every day most of it will go to fat.

4500 calories sounds way too much to me. Let me know how this works for you, i'd be very interested in your body fat percentages and your weight gain over the course of a few weeks or months! PM me if you don't want to share it here please!
Click to expand...

If you visit the link in my first post, you can follow his formula and see precisely how and what I calculated. Activity is factored in as are a couple other factors. BTW, I miscalculated originally and I think 3900 is the number I'll be targeting.
 
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hey man, how has this been going for you? Eating that many calories I mean.

How much weight have you been gaining per week? I'm really interested to see how it's been working for ya!
 
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