flipping houses!

[somethingnew987]

Is anyone else here as obsessed as I am with all of those shows about flipping houses? I know I am only 20 years old and still in college, but I'm SERIOUSLY thinking about buying a house this summer to flip. I live in Texas so the real estate market isn't in danger here...so I'm not worried about all that mess. Does anyone in here have any experience with it? I have already bought a couple books and I research homes, prices, mortgage rates, etc....for hours everyday lol.....its become a bit of a problem. I just think it would be such an adventure, plus there is the added bonus of exercise....nothing works your arms like demolition.

 

[maleficent]

watching those shows, I'd seriously hope you'd learn from the flippers mistakes... most of them get so far in over their heads both financially and project wise that they probably end up losing money in the long run...

Iknow people who've done it -and only one has been successful at it -and that's because they had lots of general contractor experience when they were younger...

If you're going to do it -work with a partner who's got experience... or offer your services as part of a summer job working on a crew -and keep your finances safe... but you get the actual experience with home building...

 

[somethingnew987]

Yeah, I watch A LOT of those shows, and I have seen how wrong things can go. I know I would never attempt anything like adding an addition or making a closet into a bathroom. I'm more interested in houses that just need things like paint, flooring, cleaning, new kitchen appliances and countertops...that sort of thing.

Right now I am actually in talks with my mom about possibly buying the house we currently live in. Because of our financial history, the house is in pretty bad shape cosmetically. My mom doesn't have the money to get it all fixed up because then she would just have to pay back another loan.....so I thought I could buy the house at a reasonable price, flip it, and resale it for what the houses in the neighborhood are going for.

My biggest fear with this kind of stuff is plumbing and foundation issues, but since I live in this house, I know exactly what sorts of issues it has had and things like when the AC and roof were last redone....and what shape they are in.

I don't know, its a really big decision. I wouldn't be doing it solely for the money (though making $20,000 this summer wouldnt be bad). As I get closer to graduating college and think more about my future, I just don't think I'm ready yet to settle down for a 9-5 job. If I could get into flipping houses it would give me something stimulating and fun to do, everyday there would be new ideas, worries, and things to learn from. Plus it would allow me to travel whenever I choose......I love the idea of not having a boss (not that I'm rebellious, I just get really anxious when there is someone watching over me). I also think it would be great to do something with my hands for once....I'm getting burned out from school, I want to do something where I can see physical results and get my hands dirty. Not just analyze and critically assess arguments and write ENDLESS essays lol.....which is basically what I will be doing again when I go to law school.

Lol, I'm not trying to defend my crazy idea to anyone, I'm just so passionate about it right now. Does anyone else have any experience with this?

 

[maleficent]

there can be a lot of things that you don't see though... and finding someone trustworthy can be tough... especially given your age, you might be a pretty easy mark for some unscrupulous types...

Before buying any house -work with someone who can tell you if there are structural issues... a lot of flippable houses are often bought as is... and you really don't know what you're getting.. you might need a new roof, there might be foundation issues, electrical issues that aren't even close to code (if it's an older house - it's a distinct possiblity)

I'm not trying to talk you out of it - because it'd be a helluva an adventure... but I'd strongly suggest walking before you run... work with someone who's doing it.. be the slave labor for a price... get the experience of doing demo and rebuilding.. and kitchen work and such...

Even volunteering with habitat for humanity would give you oodles of experience (looks great on law school applications, but doesn't put much money in your pocket might give you some experience.

 

[allyphoe]

One of my clients, after becoming disillusioned with the glamorous landlord lifestyle, decided to expand into flipping houses. The first one, he lost $5k on, and called it a learning experience. The second one, he lost $50k on. His wife has said there will be no third one.

We're in Oklahoma, which also has a fairly robust housing market. One thing I've noticed from watching the flipping TV shows is that they tend to ignore carrying costs, realtor's fees, and the little bits and pieces that add up. And they're in boom markets (which don't really exist anymore).

I've also got some professional homebuilder clients, and even they will have a job now and then they'll lose money on. With specs (which is essentially what you'll have once you've done the fix-up), a couple months of delay in finding a buyer can eat up every bit of your profit.

 

[mishi]

Flipping houses does sound cool but Mal is right. I came in on the end of my hubby rebuilding his childhood home and it was awful. Things that we thought would be simple, like putting in a new sink for the bathroom, became a big hassle when the pipes in the back broke and couldn't be soldered... we had to hire a professional. I am convinced rebuilding a house is because so many things went wrong! His brother is also trying to flip a house and he is 1/2 way through and has run out of money!
Just make sure you know what your doing but good luck It sounds like a fun thing to do before you settle for the 9-5!

 

[troutman]

somethingnew912,

Texas won't be affected. To be sure, you should find a local Real Estate agent, & have him give you monthly updates on prices & number of sales compared to the month before & the year before. Have him give these to you each month. There will be a time, it may or may not be now. Be ready & do your homework.

Yes I'm a Realtor, an agent on top of prices should be able to give you the numbers off the top of his head.

Chip

 

[KJLegend]

This is really funny because I have every single one of those show series recorded lol. I LOVE those shows and my brother, girlfiend and I all have talked about doing this. The only thing is if you have no prior experience it would be a really good idea to take your summer and do habitat for humanity first since you get a taste of what your getting yourself into. On top of that which nobody has mentioned is that if you only plan to spend this one summer flipping you have to think about all of the equipment you will have to purchase, along with a truck if you dont have one etc... this will be very costly and would not be worth it to me just for the summer. So unless you hired a contractor who has access to all of the necessary tools then it may be worth thinking about. For me personally depending on how the rest of my 2-3 years of college go I will definately keep flipping houses open as an option. I live in Wisconsin so the housing market has been sky high for the last 10 years or so...I like your idea of your parents house since both my moms and my dads house could use a good flip lol...who knows but good luck with everything sorry for the rant...

 

[bikinibound]

I'm also a Realtor, and I've flipped a house, and am about to do it again.

The first one H and I did was a total disaster. We were inexperienced, and I was new to real estate. We broke even financially, but it wasn't pretty, I assure you. It was certainly a learning experience.

My advice to you is to make sure you have enough money to make your mortgage payments for at least a year b/c it could take that long to sell it. Make sure you buy the house for below its current market value in its current state. You'll never turn a profit if you don't--especially if you're going to hire people to do a lot of the work. Don't forget about getting building permits, too. Get a Realtor who knows their stuff to do a CMA (comparitive market analysis). You are going to want to know not only what its current fair market value is, but also what it will sell for (realistically and worse case scenario) after you've fixed it up.

Don't make the house the nicest on the block (like I did), or you'll never get it's full value when you resell it. The best thing to do is find the worst house on the street, and fix it up so that it is comparable to the other houses around it. If houses in that area in good condition are selling between $150K-175K, don't expect to get more than that for yours. No one is going to buy a house that's a lot pricier than all the other houses in the neighborhood. Staging is also huge. If your furniture is ugly, it's gonna turn off buyers. I know this sounds silly, as the furniture doesn't stay with the house, but most buyers cannot see past it.

Even if you do end up buying the house you live in, get a professional building inspector to look it over. Make sure you make the sale contingent upon inspections. There could be things wrong with it that you don't even know about. You definitely want to factor the cost of rehabbing it, realtor fees, mortgage payments, closing costs (when buying and selling it), and other costs you'll spend holding onto it--property taxes, utility bills, etc.

Price it competively when you list it. Don't get emotionally involved, and try to see the house through an unbiased buyer's eyes. They don't care what you bought it for and how much $$ you spent fixing it up etc. They only care whether or not it has what they want and is a good value compared to other houses in the area. It would be a good idea to go to some open houses of places in your neighborhood to see what the competition is.

Just be very cautious--don't rush into anything. The first thing you need to do is talk to a mortgage lender and see if you can qualify for a loan, and how much you can borrow.

One question I have is where are you going to get the money to fix it up? I doubt you'll be able to finance it into the mortgage, so unless you have a stash of cash somewhere (something few 20yr olds do), I do not recommend doing this. I know places like Home Depot and Lowes offer 6-12 months of no payments/interest, but putting it on credit is a really risky thing to do.

When you estimate the cost of fixing it up, you would be wise to add about 25-50% to the estimate. When we did our first flip, I figured it would cost $15-18k to do it. It ended up being $25k due to unforseen things popping up. If there are structural issues, RUN, RUN AWAY!

 

[funshine]

My friends are in the business.

Definately make sure you know what your buying as there can be lots of hidden costs that can really add up.

I aggree though - we watch those shows all the time and I'm constantly looking at houses to get ideas.

We will begin some major renovations on our 100yr. old house come spring time. Basically gutting everything and putting in all new!

I'll know after that if it's as fun as it looks on tv.

Also - talk talk talk to lots of people. It helps when you know others with skills to save costs.

 

[Steve]

Being in the financial market, many of our clients have converted their business strategy to this. It's like anything else, in the 90s when the stock market was ridiculously hot, everyone wanted to do their own stock picking.

People got burned.

Now opportunities present itself in the R/E market and you've got a bunch of people trying to jump in.

I'm certainly not saying money can't be made in it. But from what I've seen, a lot of people don't truly understand what they're getting into.

Plus, speaking in terms of long-term averages here, the stock market trumps the real estate market....even in the hottest markets like NYC and the like.

Given my perspective, I don't think there's anything better a young individual can do than systematically invest money in an equity-oriented investment account.

The power of compounding is something very few young people really understand.

 

[bikinibound]

Plus, speaking in terms of long-term averages here, the stock market trumps the real estate market....even in the hottest markets like NYC and the like.

I disagree with you there. I think they are about equal. Certainly in the short term, reals estate can be better. I know prices in some areas have doubled in the last 5 yrs. In the stock market you can only invest what you have. In real estate you can invest usually 10X what you have. For example, you can buy a multiplex rental for $500K, and just put 50K down. In 10-20yrs (depending on the market) that property will double in price to $1million, and if you took out a 20yr mortgage, it would be paid off by then thanks to your tenants. I don't think it's possible to turn 50K into $1million in 10 yrs with mutual funds--maybe 20yrs if you choose wisely and the market doesn't tank. Had H and I bought a house in Melbourne, Australia back in 1999 for $100K, it would worth $450k today. If we'd put 20% percent down (20K), and gotten the avg int rate at that time, we'd currently owe $68k on it, giving us a $382k profit in 9 yrs. I am not kidding. In 1999 there were all kinds of houses in the suburb we lived in for $100k. Now you can't get a house in that suburb for less than $425k. Also keep in mind that the Aussie dollar was only worth about US$.60 in '99. Now they're nearly equal, so we would've made a bit of money on the currency trading aspect of it as well. Yes, we are still kicking ourselves for not buying a house back then. Utter foolishness.

Just like stocks, real estate can be a very profitable investment--if you know what you're doing.

The downside to RE is that markets can decline (just like stocks), like in my current area. Housing prices have actually declined about 10% over the last two years. Not a good time for short term investments here. Flipping is still good, though b/c of all the foreclosures on the market. You can get them dirt cheap, fix them up and sell them at a decent price that still nets a profit--if you choose carefully.

 

[Steve]

From the National Association of Realtors using data for existing single family homes....

The average annual return over 20 years from 1984 - 2004 from some areas of interest:

New York: 6.8%
San Fran: 8.4%
LA: 7.3%
Dallas: 2.4%
Denver: 5.4%

The list goes on.

Sorry, I can find better things to do with my money.

Maybe.....

Maybe if I had my finger on the pulse, it was my job, I was an absolute expert on flipping houses, etc, etc.

Then you can find value and make money. But that's the same with any industry. Shit, I can find a bond expert who makes good return in bonds. But he's been in the industry for 50 yrs and is an absolute expert.

My original point was, your average joe or jane would be better suited systematically putting their money in something that on average, returns better than real estate.

My point was NOT that you can't make good money in the R/E market.

 

[brunettegoddess]

I work for a General Contractor... we do commercial, not residential... but nonetheless I've seen a few of those flipping shows and there are lots of things on the construction side they don't show you. Paperwork is a big one... yeah you need permits... but you also need to remember that not everyone is reliable. You might think Joe is a reliable and he did all the houses on the block and he comes with great references, but usually in a residential situation (correct me if I'm wrong here), you've got to hand over a good portion or all of the money before the work is done... and once that happens if the guy never shows up it's a huge battle to get the work done or get your money back. You aren't going to know to ask about subcontractor liens and insurance, ect. And when you have small projects like that, if anything goes wrong it's another big battle to decide who's fault it is and who is going to pay for it. I've seen it happen in my office before and it takes the pressure of the GC, the architect and the owner to get the sub to pay up.. and commercially you don't get paid in full until you are finished... the system works better for a commercial owner than a residential one.

On the financial side I can't offer you the advice of Bikinibound or Steve, but at 23 I see a big red flag that you aren't done college and you mentioned that because of your financial history your house hasn't received some of the upkeep. You need to keep that in mind. I'm not saying it can't be done or that you won't be successful, but the odds are really stacked against you. And at age 20 with no major source of income, you risk having to quit college to get a full time job,... which is hard to get a good paying one without some sort of degree or certificate. And you risk your own mother's financial future if she has to support you and help pay the bills to salvage any financial future for you. I'd take Mal's idea of working for someone who does this whether you're volunteer or paid. If it's volunteer you might not be making money, but it's free education and you aren't losing money. Just my two cents.

 

[bikinibound]

From the National Association of Realtors using data for existing single family homes....

The average annual return over 20 years from 1984 - 2004 from some areas of interest:

New York: 6.8%
San Fran: 8.4%
LA: 7.3%
Dallas: 2.4%
Denver: 5.4%

The list goes on.

Sorry, I can find better things to do with my money.

Maybe.....

Maybe if I had my finger on the pulse, it was my job, I was an absolute expert on flipping houses, etc, etc.

Then you can find value and make money. But that's the same with any industry. Shit, I can find a bond expert who makes good return in bonds. But he's been in the industry for 50 yrs and is an absolute expert.

My original point was, your average joe or jane would be better suited systematically putting their money in something that on average, returns better than real estate.

My point was NOT that you can't make good money in the R/E market.

And the average historical rate of return in the stock market is about 6.5%, which is pretty close the the RE return. However, as I mentioned earlier, no one is going to lend you $100k to invest in stocks. And even if they did, the interest you'd have to pay back would outweigh any gains made in the market. With stocks, you get a historical 6.5% return on your initial investment. With RE you use your initial investment as your downpayment, and get that 5-8% return on 10X that, so as I said, use your $10k as a downpayment to buy a $100k rental, after 20yrs, you could have it paid off by your tenants and it would have appreciated to $220K by then at 6% yearly appreciation. So in 20yrs you turned $10K in $220k. In stocks, your $10k investment would turn into $36,500 in 20yrs with compounded interest if my calculations are correct. Please let me know if I'm wrong, bc that seems awfully low to me.

I'm not saying you can't make awesome money in stocks, either. I know it can be done. Donald Trump and Warren Buffet are the best examples of both. But in both RE and stocks, you really have to know what you're doing in order to make great money at either. But flipping houses and buying rentals are two completely different kinds of investments. Personally, letting your money work for you instead of working for your money makes more sense to me--but I don't like dealing with tenants. The only way I'd ever buy rentals is if I had a really good property manager to deal with all the tenant issues for me.

I certainly don't think somethingnew912 should try to flip a house unless she's really done her homework and has some money in the bank to help finance it. What I am trying to say is that stocks are just as risky as real estate--possibly more so, and that the rate of return isn't necessarily better.

brunettegoddess--you are so right about contractors, etc. We got burned bigtime from a building inspector on our first flip. It ended up completely screwing us over bc he missed some BIG things. I consulted my broker's real estate lawyer re suing him, and he said we'd never see a dime. The best thing is to get a team of people around you that do a great job, and keep them happy. Luckily in my line of work (now that I am no longer green), I know a great bunch of people to help me.

 

[Steve]

And the average historical rate of return in the stock market is about 6.5%

What's your definition of the stock market and where are you pulling the number from?

2. The info I presented returns on unique facets of the RE market. If we are going to stay true to form, if you choose the usual equity investment vehicle for your average investor, you're looking at an actively managed mutual fund.

And quality mutual funds don't take a lot of research or know-how to find, which much higher returns than 6%.

which is pretty close the the RE return. However, as I mentioned earlier, no one is going to lend you $100k to invest in stocks. And even if they did, the interest you'd have to pay back would outweigh any gains made in the market. With stocks, you get a historical 6.5% return on your initial investment. With RE you use your initial investment as your downpayment, and get that 5-8% return on 10X that, so as I said, use your $10k as a downpayment to buy a $100k rental, after 20yrs, you could have it paid off by your tenants and it would have appreciated to $220K by then at 6% yearly appreciation. So in 20yrs you turned $10K in $220k. In stocks, your $10k investment would turn into $36,500 in 20yrs with compounded interest if my calculations are correct. Please let me know if I'm wrong, bc that seems awfully low to me.

I'm not saying you can't make awesome money in stocks, either. I know it can be done. Donald Trump and Warren Buffet are the best examples of both. But in both RE and stocks, you really have to know what you're doing in order to make great money at either.

See, my original advice was for your average, young investor (like to OP) who is looking for consistent return without having to be an expert.

I'm a fan of allowing experts and huge companies with a lot more man power and access to information to do the leg work for the investor. Think proven mutual fund companies, REITs, partnerships, etc.

Someone with little to no experience I believe is going to, on average, fair better going with this route than doing it on their own in the RE market.

That's just my opinion based on what I've seen in my line of work. Systematic investment plans are safe, relatively speaking and in the context of what I've stated here.

I'm tired as shit right now so not sure if I'm even making sense.... I'll come back to this thread in the morning.

Nighty night.

 

[bikinibound]

What's your definition of the stock market and where are you pulling the number from?

6.5% is the historical avg increase in the market over all.

2. The info I presented returns on unique facets of the RE market. If we are going to stay true to form, if you choose the usual equity investment vehicle for your average investor, you're looking at an actively managed mutual fund.

And quality mutual funds don't take a lot of research or know-how to find, which much higher returns than 6%.

I agree with this, however, picking a good mutual fund is also important. They are not all created equal.

See, my original advice was for your average, young investor (like to OP) who is looking for consistent return without having to be an expert.

I'm a fan of allowing experts and huge companies with a lot more man power and access to information to do the leg work for the investor. Think proven mutual fund companies, REITs, partnerships, etc.

Someone with little to no experience I believe is going to, on average, fair better going with this route than doing it on their own in the RE market.

That's just my opinion based on what I've seen in my line of work. Systematic investment plans are safe, relatively speaking and in the context of what I've stated here.

I have found that a lot of financial planners (much like personal trainers) really don't know much about investing outside of the textbook material they need to study to pass the test. I know this is pretty much your area, so please don't be offended. I'm certainly not including you in that category. Just as there are a lot of really bad Realtors out there--you have to be careful. We're like bloody used car salesmen. But I think the best thing for a newbie flipper is to get a really good Realtor to help them find the best houses to buy, and to get them sold once they're fixed up--it's similar to getting a good financial advisor/stock broker. And some newbie stock broker may not be the best person to go with--hit or miss.

My whole point was that you said stock returns will beat RE every time. I don't agree with that, for reasons I've already stated. Actually, I'm looking into putting some $$ into a mutual fund very shortly, and have got my eye on one I've done some research on.

I'm tired as shit right now so not sure if I'm even making sense.... I'll come back to this thread in the morning.

Nighty night.

I think you made pretty good sense..lol. Sweet Dreams Mankini Muffin. Hehe I haven't tossed that word out in awhile, so I couldn't resist.

 

[Steve]

Yea, I moved goal posts during that little debate. It's nice to discuss something besides fitness with someone.... however, this is an area I will readily admit I'm not an expert in. I'm simply basing my statements on my observations.... we have just over 1200 clients and you better believe that they like to chase the trends. As we know, since the turn of the millennium, people have been chasing RE, just as they were in the 90s with equities. And from what I've seen, the venture into flipping properties, for most, has been more frustration than fun.

And this brings me back how I moved the goal posts during the argument. I never really intended to make it a RE vs. equity debate.

I more wanted it to be experience vs. inexperience debate.

For instance, I'm all for investing in RE. I personally am invested in RE. But I don't believe it's something the average person should go out and start dabbling in, in terms of the purchase and flipping of physical properties.

There's just too much at play for an inexperienced person to make proper/informed decisions. Sure, you can find yourself a seasoned realtor. But that's just one person, a single person at that.

My argument is, I'd rather, and I do tap into the RE market by hiring the cream of the crop managers who have access to the information that no local realtor is going to have. Again, as I mentioned above, things like real estate investment trusts and partnerships. Not only do these managers have a lot more access to critical data, they also allow access into markets that your ordinary individual investor isn't going to be able to touch; high rise apartment complexes, hotels & resorts, skyscrapers, commercial, etc, etc, etc.

Basically you allow someone (not a single person, but an entity) else to handle the decision making that has resources that you could never get your hands on and allows access to markets you can't touch without getting y our hands dirty with all the 'flipping chores' that must go on when you do it on your own.

Now, if flipping houses is something you want to do for reasons beyond making money.... like it's your passion to fix up houses and all that jazz.... so be it. I'm certainly not suggesting everyone shouldn't flip houses. I'm simply suggesting that there are safer, easier, diversified approaches to get into that market for the average investor that either doesn't necessarily understand what flipping houses requires or, more commonly, doesn't want to get their hands dirty.

I take the same view with the equities too.

Our firm has been in business since the 40's. We turned people into millionaires and we've always avoided the trends in the market. It's very simplistic in our eyes.... do good research on managers who have proven track records and sound fundamentals, and systematically give them your excess money to put to good use. Allow the people with the expertise and information to put your money to use for long-term wealth generation.

We also avoid individual company stocks, for the most part. Just as we tend to avoid individual properties (flipping).

I'm not suggesting I've never chased a high flyer or an individual company stock and I'm not suggesting that I'll never chase a potential profitable RE deal by flipping a property.

I'm more talking about investment strategy for long-term wealth.

I'll add that I'm not sure there's a right or a wrong here. We have a client who has been flipping commercial properties for years and is worth a billion dollars on paper, literally. Again, it's not about equity vs. RE. That's not my argument.

It's about the vehicle you use to get you to where you're trying to be in terms of personal finance, and making sure that that vehicle is in line with your objectives, expertise, and goals.

*********************

As for your figure of 6.5% average annual returns on the stock market.... I'm still curious as to where you're pulling that data from? There are a lot of metrics to quantify the stockmarket....certainly not saying your data is wrong.... just want to know where it's coming from.

For instance, most people signify the S&P 500 when they say stock market.

 

[bikinibound]

I'm all for experience. My point was that it sounded to me that you were saying stocks were a better investment over RE, which I disagree with. As in anything, you shouldn't dive headfirst into it. If you don't know what you're doing, you better have someone who does know what they're doing have your back--otherwise you're gonna get burned. I really don't think we're disagreeing--it's just the way you said the following that I disagree with:

Plus, speaking in terms of long-term averages here, the stock market trumps the real estate market....even in the hottest markets like NYC and the like.

On average, is it likely that the average Joe can turn $10k into $220k in less than 20yrs from investing in stocks on his own without much knowledge of the stock market?

My H and I have a couple of books written by William O'Neil, founder of Investor's Business Daily--certainly a reputable fellow. He says that with mutual funds you can expect to double your money every 5 yrs. So in 20yrs, you'd only have $80k after 20yrs from a $10k initial investment. But I have seen funds that increase at much higher rates than that. But my expertise is RE, not stocks, so I defer to your in this matter.

Just about anyone buying a house can expect it to double in value over 20yrs. In many hot markets, it will do that much faster. For example, the Melbourne, Aust market has seen prices triple and quadruple over the last decade, as did some areas in the U.S. However, the boom won't last forever, the bubble will burst, and the market will correct itself. I'm sure stocks are very similar. The 90s bubble burst in 2000-2001 and is now recovering. The housing market here took a little longer to downturn, and so is taking longer to turn around.

This all seems pretty all over the place to me, and I think it's b/c I'm the one who's tired tonight. Time for bed.

Flipping is certainly not for everyone, and it has nothing to do with long term investing. Most RE investment isn't long-term--unless you're buying rental units. I don't think I urged this young woman to dive into flipping, if anything, I think I was trying to discourage her by pointing out all the things that can go wrong, and what she should do if she is going to go forward with it.

 

[KJLegend]

All you need is an investor! Find someone you know who would be looking to take a risk with you to help you out. Once you have done this a couple times you should have enough CASH to yourself to start a job yourself. Plus you will have the experience and tools necessary to complete a job yourself. But of course finding someone to loan you the money will be hard unless you give them MOST of the return on their investment which the first few times would sound fair.

I'm not an expert but it sounds simple enough to me. As long as you dont get yourself in deeper than you can swim you should be fine. I would wait until your out of college at least thats what I'm doing since I have a couple years to go myself. Hopefully I will still have the motivation once I'm finished with school to do this. GOOD LUCK!