female confused about protein shakes, recovery drinks etc

C

Cherryblue

0
Hi, I would be grateful for some advice, I have searched the forums here and can't really find an answer to my questions, I apologise in advance if this has already been covered but I couldn't find it.

A bit of background on me firstly - I'm not new to working out and strength training but I haven't hit the gym in years and in that time gained quite a bit of weight. Anyway I decided enough was enough and I just last week completed a round of Insanity and lost 24lbs overall. Insanity was really challenging and I did enjoy it but I really hate cardio and much prefer weights. I still have some weight to lose, probably the same amount that I've already lost and have been working out 6 days a week for the last week, a mixture of cardio and strength training but mostly I've been hitting the weights, (heavy weight, low reps.). My aim is to lose the extra weight and build a whole lot of lean muscle to make my body more effective at fat burning. With regards to my diet I have been eating clean, no processed foods, lots of steamed salmon, grilled chicken, sweet potato, brown rice, lots of steamed veg, olive oil, avocado, nuts, little to no sugar etc.

I really want to maximise the usefulness of my training and have read so much conflicting advice regarding supplements that I don't know whether I'm coming or going!! I always work out first thing in the morning on an empty stomach because if I don't do it in the morning I find it difficult to fit into my day and if I eat before I train I feel sick. Insanity really took its toll on my energy levels and I recently bought Celcius powder which gives me lots of energy for my workouts. However I'm not really happy about consuming something that has a list of ingredients most of which I don't know what they are! I want to preserve my lean muscle mass and I have a feeling I might be diminishing my gains by not replenishing after strength training, but I'm worried that protein shakes will make me gain weight when I'm trying to lose weight, I read somewhere that you shouldn't try to build muscle until you are at your target weight but I don't want to lose the muscle I've already gained. I understand I can work shakes etc into my calorie count for the day but when I look at them they tend to have around 200-300 cals and that's without adding milk and/or flavour and I don't see how I could cut out a meal in order to work in a shake as I'm not eating a great deal as it is, I don't feel hungry but any less than what I'm eating now and life would seem too depressing!. My average weight loss is around 3lb per week.

To cut a long story short whats the best pre/post workout shake/drink for a woman who wants to lose weight and gain lean muscle mass? Also should I be taking vitamins and other stuff like creatine? and whats the best supplement routine, ie: when should I take them? Should I be doing higher reps, lower weights until I have lost my extra weight or go heavy now? I'm not afraid of bulking up as I know this is near on impossible for a woman and am happy to go heavy enough to fail at 6-8 reps but am confused if I'm doing the right thing. Also I just got JNL fusion which is strength training mixed with HIIT and will be most likely starting that from Monday but eventually I want to work out my own lifting/cardio routine working different muscle groups on different days that will best suit my body/pace.

Thanks in advance for any advice and sorry for being long winded!
 
Sorry my mistake I actually lost 29lbs doing insanity, I'm from the UK and still think in stones and I calculated wrong! Also forgot to mention whilst doing insanity - on the days I wasn't completed exhausted (around 2 or 3 times per week) I was doing chalean extreme in the evenings which is weights and about 30mins long. Although by the 2nd month of insanity I missed this out quite a bit as I just too tired and there was quite a lot of body resistance anyway in the 2nd month. Also I went swimming 4 or 5 times over the 60 days.
 
Some basics on supplements

Energy supplelements.
Post or mid workout is usually isotonic this Usually water with glucose salts and a bunch of largely irrelevant stuff apart from that. Calorific value should be minimal as you want something that will enter the system immediately otherwise you risk that delightful sick feeling. Reality check, unless you are doing a seriously long session the glycogen stored in the body and glucose in your blood will cover all the carb need for your workout. Water is 99.5% as effective hydrating your body as the very best isotonic drink and in truth that 0.5% is not as dramatic as the ads make it appear.
Pre workout should be a mix of carbs from glucose to starch, as little of anything else as possible to ensure not sitting in the stomach. Very small quantity for the same reason. Reality check again, if you have eaten since your last workout the chances are there will be energy available for your next one. Most pre-workout supplements have to be timed so perfectly to get true benefit they are a waste. If the carbs get in to early they will be stripped out of the blood stream, too late it risks you being sick.
If you get the pre and post workout supplements absolutely perfect you will get a tiny amount of improvement in your workout. I have had this done while training for competetive sport and there was a measurable difference, but I didn't personally see a difference. Whenever I have tried doing this myself I have messed it up or been so focussed on timing that I haven't psyched for the training. Real world your body will get the fuel it needs unless you are doing workouts of over an hour of continuous high intensity activity from body stores.

Protein shakes
This is working from memory so please do check the figures, long time ago I read it now. Grams of protein the body can absorb at one time 17g, during the absorbtion phase linked to half hour post workout window 24g.
This is fine when eating real food because most of us will be eating our meat slowly along with other food, the protein in this will be broken down gradually so the absorbtion rate is enough to get most of the protein into your body from your food, because even if there was 30g in the meal, it will have been passed through over a long enough time.
Protein shakes are usually downed in moments and generally contain more than the body can absorb, though the manufacturers may have learned to adjust this in the last 10 years. This means a lot of the protein in that shake will not even get into the blood stream, it will however give you mild constipation and unsociable odour to accompany your methane production, if you are having these regularly you will likely not even notice.
You will break down muscle tissue while training, there is no avoiding this fact. Taking in more protein will not stop it. In the UK as with most of the western world our diet is actually proportionatly high in fat and protein so the obsession with supplementing protein is laughed at by most knowledgeable nutritionists, even though many of them work in stores selling them.
Protein becomes amino acids to be transported in the blood. What the body needs gets converted to everything from enzymes, to body tissue, and it does this very well. What is doesn't need comes under the category of toxic waste as far as the body is concerned because it can become ammonia and cause damage. In the same was as we are dealing with toxic waste anything that can be converted to something useful is, in the case of the body protein it converts to lipoprotein a form of fat. Anything it can't convert it dispose of has to be ditched and that is the whole point of your urinary system, getting rid of broken down protein based tissue and excess protein.
So in short, you are UK based and therefore unlikely to need more protein. Shakes will be giving you more than you can handle, and the excess will either become fat or wee. Personally I haven't seen any difference whether using them or not in the distant past, and haven't bothered in over 15 years and done very well at achieving my goals without.

Creatine
Less simple one here. If your training is at the absolute max on short durations creatine can be useful, if not it's likely a waste.
The phospo-creatine system is part of your energy supply within the body. Your most common use is when standing up from seated position, an action requiring a lot of energy in a sudden burst.
The energy systems are
Aerobic, which literally lasts you a lifetime, when you cannot generate energy with presence of oxygen, you will die shortly after. Everything eventually gets paid off by this system, so the two below are sometimes referred to as oxygen debt.
Anaerobic which lasts 1.5 to 2 minutes when used on it's own, it is also known as the lactic acid system after the waste it produces, the build up is stitch, clearing this requires oxygen, so back to the the debt payer above.
Phospo-creatine is approximately 10 seconds of intense energy. It is paid for by the presence of creatine phosphate in the muscle tissue itself and the only energy system that is available with immediate effect. I usually say it is the system you would use to run out of the door if a lion jumps in through the window. If you run flat out, you will go about 10 seconds and have to stop, no stitch but nothing left.
People who use the energy system getting benefit from creatine supplements are power-lifters, sprinters etc. People who will do something incredible for a few moments then stop. If you are doing no rest circuits, intervals, aerobics, continuos classes, jogging etc. it will not make any difference at all.
Every other supplement can be replaced easily with diet, protein is easy, so is carg and fat energy, creatine isn't. As such it is the only one I ever recommend if people are training at that upper limit. Creatine is in the diet, but I think getting the amount in the standard supplements would be the equivilant of eating 5 pounds of beef steak every day, so this one is unrealistic to get with diet alone.

Long winded question, ridiculously long winded answer. Basic summation, focus on training first, eat well, supplements will not get you as much benefit as giving more focus to your workouts so just do that.
 
First off, kudos for going heavy in your workouts. Clearly, you understand the importance of heavy lifting to keep muscle. If you're working out in the morning, no post-workout shake you can buy is going to do you any better than a good breakfast. Personally, I will tell you that you don't need shakes. I've tried different kinds of protein, and I never noticed a difference with it until I stopped and just concentrated on my food intake. All these nutrition companies have hammered into people's heads that they aren't going to gain muscle without some sort of wonder shake. This is not true. No shake is going to do anything better for your body than food. Real food is much easier for your body to break down, and not to mention you can get more food for the money than whey protein. I don't have a problem with an energy shake. Some are good. Some just make you jittery, but if it's working for you, by all means, but as far as a protein shake goes, this guy is going to tell you to have a good diet and forget about wasting your money on those shakes.
 
Hi, Cherryblule. Sorry no one's replied to your post yet. EDIT: And in the time it took me to reply, two knowledgeable guys did in fact reply.

I'm a bit confused on the details. In your first post your say you had just started Insanity the previous, in the follow-up post you suggest that it's been multiple months. It's been a few weeks since you first posted. What changes have been going on in your body in that time?

With regards to supplements, consider what the word supplement means, and then, based on that, consider how much you really need to be worrying about them. Supplements are there to pick up where your diet leaves off. Work on your diet, and you end up with little need for supplementation. My diet's far from perfect, but it's good enough that I feel confident in my nutritional intake when the only supplements I use are a multi-vitamin and fish oil capsules, which I only take when I think of it (not every day). Vegetables, fruit, meat, dairy, nuts, legumes, eggs, whole grains and water should pretty much be your staples. Get them in, and you won't need much in the way of supplementation. As for energy levels early in the morning, perhaps something as simple as a cup of coffee before exercise, or some fruit juice to get some sugar into your blood so that you don't pass out. You'll have to figure out what works for you. You might even need to...you know...eat before hand. Personally, I can't do any intense exercise until I've put something in my stomach, or else I will topple over and black out. I've talked to others who slaughter themselves first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and feel great while doing so. I'm the kind of guy who can drink a litre of milk and start lifting heavy weights immediately afterwards without any drawbacks; I have a friend who can't consume anything other than water for 5 hours before exercising or he'll throw up. We're the extremes: you probably fit somewhere in between.

You're right to lift heavy weights while cutting, as it'll preserve muscle mass.
 
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