Sport Eating healthier, but not losing the weight.

[Drex]

Starting beginning of May I picked up my exercise and cut down on food consumption to lose weight and be more healthy. It was working and I was losing about 10 lbs a month, 40lbs total from beginning of May - end of August. Towards the end of August I started doing some research and found my exercise routine wasn't very good and my eating habits were not good. So I have been making an attempt to eat as I read I should be but I have lost 1-2 lbs through the month of September.

I have been using fitday to keep track of everything. This link should show my progress for the last month:

My assumption is that the calculation is wrong for the calories I use in a day and that I should go more towards a 1000 calorie deficit from what I am told on fitday. Does anyone have any other thought?

Background:

I'm currently 6'5" about 203 lbs (fluctuates from 199 - 207 throughout the day), 31 years old. My scale currently puts me in an 18-23 bf%. I am trying to get down to 10-12 bf%.

My diet through the first 4 months looked something like this:

Breakfast:
a protien bar or chocolate crossaint

Lunch:
beef sandwich from potbelly or Chipotle burrito or milio's sub

Dinner:
hot pocket or somehting the wife made

exercise was running 4 days a week, lifting 3 days a week and volleyball 3 nights a week.

I know most days I was way under calories for the day, but I did not notice any loss in strength while lifting, in fact had several gains. After reading up on everything, I did not want to lose muscle so I used fitday to track everything and tried to stay close to a 500 calorie deficit, but since that time the weight loss has severly slowed.

My workout days are the same, except I changed my poor lifting workout into a good full body workout. I also have been biking 1 day a week in place of running for that day.

I am eating a lot healthier now. I do notice I have more energy, but I am dissapointed in the lack of progress. So should I just drop to a 1000 calorie deficit from what fitday tells me or is there a better way of figuring out how many calories I should eat in a day?

Thanks for the help,

Drex

 

[vojdancov]

At the end of the day, the amount of calories you eat is what matters for weight loss.
However in order to improve your diet you need to eat 5-6 meals a day in small portions, as opposed to the 3 times a day that you eat. That way your body will be able to metabolize food more efficiently.
It would be a good idea (if possible) to do your cardio first thing in the morning when you wake up, on an empty stomach. That way your body doesn't have something like carbs to use as a source of energy, so it uses the fat that you have and burns the fat for energy.Also, drink plenty,plenty of water. At least 50 oz. per day
I think that the reason why your weight loss is slowing down, is because you're slowly gaining some muscle mass, and losing some fat simultaneously, since the muscle mass also adds those pounds when you measure yourself, you end up not losing that much weight.
Remember, the best way to see your progress is by measuring body fat%, that will tell you how well you're doing. Instead of measuring your weight each month check your body fat%.
Don't go on a 1000 calories deficit, you will end up losing muscle, I'm sure you don't want that.
BTW, Congratulations on your weight loss, your progress is truly great, just keep up the good work and even more results will come.

 

[Chillen]

At the end of the day, the amount of calories you eat is what matters for weight loss.

Calories are the BOSS, and is the MOST important. However, nutrients play a key role as well in ones personal goals.

However in order to improve your diet you need to eat 5-6 meals a day in small portions, as opposed to the 3 times a day that you eat. That way your body will be able to metabolize food more efficiently.

Eating more frequently does not increase the metabolism, but rather I believe there is stronger evidence that manipulation of caloric content has a greater effect. I advocate meal frequency for a variety of reasons (stave off hunger pains or the feeling of being hungry, and other benefits)

It would be a good idea (if possible) to do your cardio first thing in the morning when you wake up, on an empty stomach. That way your body doesn't have something like carbs to use as a source of energy, so it uses the fat that you have and burns the fat for energy.

Morning cardio is a much debated subject, and the jury is still out deliberating. Cardio can be done at any time. And, whether fat is used for a fuel source during cardio depends on many factors (intensity, length of session, etc...); however, what ever fuel souce used, if the diet is messed up the cardio gets messed up: A caloric surplus can and will erase the calories burned and if applicable the fat burned during cardio.

Also, drink plenty,plenty of water.

I agree.

I think that the reason why your weight loss is slowing down, is because you're slowly gaining some muscle mass, and losing some fat simultaneously, since the muscle mass also adds those pounds when you measure yourself, you end up not losing that much weight.

Gaining weight can in effect change the MT Line, and adjustments in caloric content due to weight GAIN are necessary.

Remember, the best way to see your progress is by measuring body fat%, that will tell you how well you're doing. Instead of measuring your weight each month check your body fat%.

This is an individual decision, but personally I dont agree with having the body fat percent as a gauge in the general average joe, sense. I think the person judging his/her appearance and weight (On a scale, and weight checked "appropriately") should suffice for most average persons. This is not saying one cant use it if they wish. There is no problem with this if they decide to do so. But having to many measurement factors at once (in the unknowing eye) can be a mental distraction and regression to some persons.

Don't go on a 1000 calories deficit, you will end up losing muscle, I'm sure you don't want that.

1000c is starving yourself. One should NEVER DO THIS. I agree.


I just wanted to clarify a few things........


Best regards,


Chillen

 

[Chillen]

Starting beginning of May I picked up my exercise and cut down on food consumption to lose weight and be more healthy. It was working and I was losing about 10 lbs a month, 40lbs total from beginning of May - end of August.

What was your starting MT LINE before the loss of 40 lbs? What was your routine before you changed it.

Some thoughts here: Going on a deficit diet after not being on one (or not knowing your caloric intake and assuming it was over what you needed, because you were over weight when you started), one will generally lose wgt at pretty good click when a deficit diet is introduced because of the elevated caloric content before introduction--this is true in general terms.

So I have been making an attempt to eat as I read I should be but I have lost 1-2 lbs through the month of September.

Weight loss slowed after August into September:

As your wgt dropped, your caloric needs also changed, and the margin of deficit though you were at -500 also possibly reduced to LESS then this as result.

In other words, though you were statistically allowing a -500c deficit, your MT Line changed to a lower Line, which erased the -500c to a different level of deficit (understand what I mean?): Thus this could be one explaination of your slowed fat loss.

Fat loss is usually the greatest at the beginning, and then it tapers, and on the surface this isnt unusual. However, dieters tend to forget there wgt changes when they diet---thus affecting their caloric needs as well.

Background:

I'm currently 6'5" about 203 lbs (fluctuates from 199 - 207 throughout the day), 31 years old. My scale currently puts me in an 18-23 bf%. I am trying to get down to 10-12 bf%.

If you are going to weigh yourself: Do this in the morning at the same time with the same clothes on, and not during the day. It is normal for the body to flex in wgt during the day (food and beverage affects this). Do once or twice a week. The trick is NOT to dive yourself crazy by doing it too often and sporadic during the day and week.........DONT DO THIS.

most days I was way under calories for the day, but I did not notice any loss in strength while lifting, in fact had several gains. After reading up on everything, I did not want to lose muscle so I used fitday to track everything and tried to stay close to a 500 calorie deficit, but since that time the weight loss has severly slowed.

What do you mean "Most days" you were way under yor caloric limit? Were there days you were over? If you just started weight training when you began your weight loss, it is normal to obtain strength and muscle fairly quickly even in a deficit diet---but this too will taper with time. If you had went over in caloric equation, then this of course effected your results in addition if you didn't train or a like combination.

My workout days are the same, except I changed my poor lifting workout into a good full body workout. I also have been biking 1 day a week in place of running for that day.

When did you change your routine, what month?

I am eating a lot healthier now. I do notice I have more energy, but I am dissapointed in the lack of progress. So should I just drop to a 1000 calorie deficit from what fitday tells me or is there a better way of figuring out how many calories I should eat in a day?

Thanks for the help,

Drex

What is your MT Line NOW (I want to compare the MT line when you started). 1000c is a huge deficit. Currently I am NOT commited to a deficit number until I see the difference in your MT Lines and other information you provide.


Best regards,


Chillen

 

[Drex]

Thanks for the replies vojdancov & Chillen

I have been trying to fit more small meals in a day, but for most of the month it was 4 meals a day, more recently I have been able to get 5 in. The 3 meals a day was prior to my research, while I was still losing weight.

I get plenty of water, I have a glass next to me pretty much all the time and although I don't keep track I probably get around 150 oz per day.

As far as nutrition, it wasn't that great during the months I was losing weight. I stepped up nutrition in Septemeber greatly, but since then my progress has slowed.

Fitday has me at about 3000c maintenance, prior to any exercise. My exercise each day puts me at 3500c-4500c in a given day, so I have been trying to reach 3000c each day and usually don't even get to that. I usually end up eating quite a bit around 8:00 to try to catch up for calories for the day. In the months I was losing weight, although I didn't keep track I was more in the range of 2000c a day, eating food lower in nutrition. A frequent example during the first 4 months would be a chocolate crossaint with OJ for breakfast (8:00), potbelly beef sandwich with a pop for lunch (11:00), get home and run 5 miles, eat a hot pocket (light turkey or chicken) with 2 cups of milk (6:00), play 6 games of volleyball (about 2 hours).

I now try to eat mostly healthy food and try to get up to 3000c a day. The link in the original post shows exactly what I eat and mostly it is in the order it was eaten throughout the day. I'm just wondering if the 3000c is wrong and maybe my 500c deficit should be 2500c instead of 3000c, even though fitday may have me listed as using 3500c for the day. I had read a 500c deficit should yield 1-2 lbs weight loss per week and that is not happening.

Also to note, I have been using Hydroxicut hardcore the entire time. The one benefit I get from this is that I don't feel hungry. I notice if I don't take it I will feel hungry over the longer periods when I haven't eaten where as when I take the Hydroxicut I don't feel hungry. I know I won't get any encouragement to contiue using it, but it has worked for me to cut my appetite.

On a side note, I have a question for Chillen if you read this again. I had been told by a teacher in college that it was not possible to build new muscle after you reach your mid 30's. (Different for everyone, but around that time) I read somewhere that you started lifting later than that. Was my teacher incorrect? Have you been able to build muscle past this stage?

Thanks,

Drex

 

[Chillen]

Thanks for the replies vojdancov & Chillen


On a side note, I have a question for Chillen if you read this again. I had been told by a teacher in college that it was not possible to build new muscle after you reach your mid 30's. (Different for everyone, but around that time) I read somewhere that you started lifting later than that. Was my teacher incorrect? Have you been able to build muscle past this stage?

Thanks,

Drex

With respect to your teacher, she couldnt be more wrong. If I had not gained ANY muscle or LOST any fat weight during my LONG road to get where I am at now......I would have flat gave up a LONG time ago.

And as most forum members know,,,,,,,,I am NOT the one to give up--I am more hard on myself then I am with the others on the forum, LOL. I dont like talking about myself much, but what I will say is that my 46 year old body LOOKS BETTER then it did when I was 25.

What is true about age (some facts):

Some important biological changes that occur are: 1. The metabolism naturally slows as we age (but this can be effectively dealt with), 2. The Skin tends to be less elastic and doesnt bounce back--as quick (and this too can be effectivly deal with--if not too serious), 3. Testosterone levels tend to drop slowly as we age (and this too can be dealt with, but still will not be as good as one in their prime).

But, to answer your question. No its not true. One can grow muscle practically throughout life. Where she got that information is beyond me.


I will answer your questions here in a few........

 

[Drex]

In response to Chillen's second post.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term MT Line. My lifting routine was about 7 exercises that excluded legs and back. Instead of doing 3 sets of an exercise I would do 1 set of everything and then repeat this 3 times. I have changed this to a FBW with 3 sets of each exercise before moving to the next. For food, prior to May, I didn't really pay attention to what I ate, but I was getting plenty of calories, enough to maintain the 260 I weighed prior to 2006. I exercised and lifted moderately throughout the year of 2006 and got down to about 230, got sick for a few weeks and ended up postponing exercising for four months Jan-April, then started hitting it hard in May with no research. I started researching end of August.

End of August was the first time I checked to see how many calories I should be eating. Fitday is supposed to adjust how many calories I need each day based on the current weight I have entered. If MT line is maintenance calories, I never even looked into that until last month.

After May I doubt I was over on calories any day because I did cut how much I was eating by quite a bit, but most days I think i was under by a lot. Again I did not keep track back then so i can't be sure.

Jan 06 - Dec 06 lifted & ran moderately, didn't watch food intake, went from 260 - 230.
Jan 07 - Apr 07 slacked off, went back to 240 lbs
May 07 - Aug 07 lifting & cardio hard, cut down food intake, but still didn't watch what I ate, just tried to keep portions smaller, went from 240 - 203.
Last 2 weeks of August I did a lot of research
Sept 07 new FBW lifting program, same cardio except switching running with biking once a week, watched calories and tried to eat healthy food, tried to keep calories at around a 500c deficit, although usually had a little more than a 500c deficit.

I hope that answers your questions.

 

[Wrangell]

In response to Chillen's second post.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term MT Line. .

It's simply the number maintenance of calories you need each day to maintain you lifestyle and / or exercise regimen without any significant increase or decrease in weight. It's the number of " maintenance level " calories you need each day and is usually based on adjustments to your basal metabolic rate or BMR.

There are a couple of tools you can use to help you figure out what that " maintenance level " might be based on BMR. These are 2 of the more the common ones that estimate BMR.......

- The Harris-Benedict formula
- Katch-McArdle formula
​

This article by Tom Venuto does a nice job of explaining " maintenance level " calories and BMR ( including the formulas noted above )...

 

[morleykerry]

im not an expert in this field but your meals have no fruit or veg

For me, fruit and veg are really 'easy' calories to burn off and they are packed with nutrients and other benificial bonuses.

i also do a 15 - 20 min workout before breakfast to give my metabolism a little boost (3X a week)

i change my workout once a month so i dont hit that 'neutral' zone where my body just doesnt change. maybe your body is used to your workout and your not seeing any improvement you would like to see.

 

[Drex]

Thanks for the info Wrangell, I will take a look at those.

To morleykerry: Yes, my diet was bad, what I listed there was my diet while I was losing weight, prior to doing research into what I should be eating. I did not eat fruit at all, unless you count OJ. For the last month I have been eating much healthier, including serveral portions of fruit and vegetables per day. The link in the first post has a detailed list of what I have been eating for the past month, but also doesn't seem to be working as well as the poor diet.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Drex]

Both The Harris-Benedict formula and Katch-McArdle formula put me at around 3500c per day. This is very similar to fitday, with the exception that fitday keeps track of each specific exercise to update calories used for the day. Accoring to these numbers, from what I have read and the calories I have been consuming I should be losing around 2 lbs per week, but that is not the case.

Doing some more research I was wondering since I spent 4 months where most days I was probably 1000c-1500c under what I use that my metabolism may have slowed down to accomidate? Now that I finally calculated out what I should be getting, that my metabolism is down to the point where it is not correct for me right now. My guess on that is that if I continue my current diet that my metabolism may come back up to use more inline with my BMI.

I may be totally wrong with that as well and the calculators may just not match how many calories I actually use. That is where I was getting at the 1000c deficit, not acually going 1000c below what I use, but assume that 3500 isn't correct and instead of going 500c below 3500c, try 500c below 3000c.

This is my first time keeping track of calories in and calories out, so trying to get the right formula down for me.

 

[Chillen]

In response to Chillen's second post.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term MT Line.

I will furnish more information on the MT Line (Since I post it so often with new members, I just saved it to repost, and serves the same purpose, hope you dont mind this)

My lifting routine was about 7 exercises that excluded legs and back. Instead of doing 3 sets of an exercise I would do 1 set of everything and then repeat this 3 times. I have changed this to a FBW with 3 sets of each exercise before moving to the next.

What specifically are thes exercises? 3 sets per exercise sound okay to me on the surface of knowledge I know thus far about you, but would like to know the other exercises involved in your routine.

For food, prior to May, I didn't really pay attention to what I ate, but I was getting plenty of calories, enough to maintain the 260 I weighed prior to 2006. I exercised and lifted moderately throughout the year of 2006 and got down to about 230, got sick for a few weeks and ended up postponing exercising for four months Jan-April, then started hitting it hard in May with no research. I started researching end of August.

I Understand what you are saying here.

at the end of August was the first time I checked to see how many calories I should be eating. Fitday is supposed to adjust how many calories I need each day based on the current weight I have entered. If MT line is maintenance calories, I never even looked into that until last month.

The MT line is your daily caloric NEED requirement Line. Going over (surplus) or under (deficit) can lead to tissue gain or loss.

Jan 06 - Dec 06 lifted & ran moderately, didn't watch food intake, went from 260 - 230.

GREAT!......You lost weight and this is what mattered: the bottom line. BUt you most likely were in a deficit

Jan 07 - Apr 07 slacked off, went back to 240 lbs

What happened here may I ask?

May 07 - Aug 07 lifting & cardio hard, cut down food intake, but still didn't watch what I ate, just tried to keep portions smaller, went from 240 - 203.

Great!......but still a deficit had to occur.

Last 2 weeks of August I did a lot of research
Sept 07 new FBW lifting program, same cardio except switching running with biking once a week, watched calories and tried to eat healthy food, tried to keep calories at around a 500c deficit, although usually had a little more than a 500c deficit.

I hope that answers your questions.

This portion of your post is the best. Because once you formulate what you need in the caloric sense, and weight loss occurs, you will have a caloric base of knowledge to use in the fight against slowed weight loss or when a plateau develops (which is sometimes does).

Being armed with "Your Past History" in the caloric sense AND training sense can prove to be "invaluable" information in the present when complications develop in tissue loss or within weight training.

This is one of many reasons I advocate tracking calories in ones journey and within the weight training routine (along with the progression).

Best regards,


Chillen

(EDIT: I noticed you posted just before I posted these comments)

 

[Drex]

My workout for May-Aug was:

Bench press - 10 reps
Curls - 10 reps
Lying tricep extensions - 10 reps
Weighted crunches (10lbs) - 100 reps
a 3 way shoulder exercise that included lat raise, upright row and forward raise - 10 reps
shoulder press - 10 reps
calf raise - 50 reps

I would then start from the top with Bench press again, 3 times total.

New routine I do all 3 of an exercise, supersetting a couple, before moving to the next.

Squat or lunge - 3x10
Straight-leg deadlift - 3x10 (ss)
Calf Riase (50) or Calf Press (25) - 3 sets (ss)
Bench press - 3x10
Pull-up(failure - 5) or row(10)- 3 sets
Shoulder Press or Lateral raise - 3x10
Curl(10) or Pull-up(failure - 6) - 3 sets
Dip(currently at 9) or lying tricep extension(10) - 3 sets (ss)
Stiff-leg deadlift - 3x10 (ss)
Weighted crunch (10lbs) 3x100

Reason for the slack off period, I ended up with a cold in December, continued running outside in MN, about 20 degrees, made it a lot worse, ended up being sick for about 4 weeks and had to take some time off to rest and get over it. It was hard for me to get back into it after an extended break. Finally in May I did get back into it.

 

[Chillen]

Both The Harris-Benedict formula and Katch-McArdle formula put me at around 3500c per day. This is very similar to fitday, with the exception that fitday keeps track of each specific exercise to update calories used for the day. According to these numbers, from what I have read and the calories I have been consuming I should be losing around 2 lbs per week, but that is not the case.

What was your weight prior to the slowing of weight loss? As weight declines so does caloric requirements, and so DOES calories burned during excercise (in a basic set--no need to get overally complicated).

Remember the figures entered into fit day or any other formula are only as good as the intrigrity of the numbers applied (Im not implying anything when I say that), but all data needs to be honest and sincere, one minor thing not done in training, or a few items eaten not accounted for during the course of a week......can and WILL make the difference.


Bare in mind this is just an example on how LITTLE things accumulate to create self bumps in the road

For example: 100c eaten in sporadic snacks (say some almonds now and then, but not accounted for)---say this is each day----and then you switch your routine from say 1hr to 1/2 hour (say a 150c net loss in calories burned)

In this example, there are +700c in the snacks alone in one week. In addition, if you work out 3 times a week, and cut off a 1/2 hour, then this ADDS calories that were normally burned to NOT being burned now which is about 450c. So 450 + 700=1150c over what you may have calculated--thus fat loss is not going to be acurate with the data, and your weight loss will show this in BODY---as not corresponding to the data in FIT DAY or any other calculation you use. Since there are approximated 3500c in one pound of fat, and you are cutting -500c (approximately) from your MT Line per day, being meticulous on calories are important as you can see in this example.


It does not take very much to litterally EAT the -500 back toward your MT LINE, or make personal adjustments made (that can be negative) in the caloric sense in the exercise routine.

After a while, when the body reduces tissue and thus weight, the calories needed also lower as a result in most circumstances.

The body "tends" to self adjust to certain amount of calories as well over a length of period. IF by being "terribly" honest with yourself, you decided that all the data is in fact accurate, and weight loss has slowed--of apparent---no fault of YOUR OWN: You make "intelligent" caloric adjustments and/or exercising adjustments to boost weight gain along again--there are many ways to do this. ALL bodily responses are good--I could careless its a bad or good response---it tells you something.

Doing some more research I was wondering since I spent 4 months where most days I was probably 1000c-1500c under what I use that my metabolism may have slowed down to accomidate? Now that I finally calculated out what I should be getting, that my metabolism is down to the point where it is not correct for me right now. My guess on that is that if I continue my current diet that my metabolism may come back up to use more inline with my BMI.

This is the problem of not tracking in the past--you dont know. But for example sake, lets say you were in fact at 1,000c to 1500c below MT. If you then adjust to 500c under MT, this is INCREASING your calories........which when weight loss slows--can be a desireable thing to do--to change a weight loss plateau.

I may be totally wrong with that as well and the calculators may just not match how many calories I actually use. That is where I was getting at the 1000c deficit, not acually going 1000c below what I use, but assume that 3500 isn't correct and instead of going 500c below 3500c, try 500c below 3000c.

This is my first time keeping track of calories in and calories out, so trying to get the right formula down for me.

I haven't looked at Benedict to see if your MT configured is correct, but it looks fairly close. If you are accurate in diet and in fact doing training regularly, and weight loss slowed then you have many options at your disposal:

1. Increase calories (sometimes a temporary increase is what it takes) and then a revert back to a different deficit number (maybe to MT or a very small portion over)

2. Adjust the deficit an additional 100c down (or bring up the deficit a bit narrower), and increase something on the exercise side of the equation. (Double stimulus)

3. Consume calories at your MT LINE (and use an additional exercise to bring it to deficit)

and on and on with possibilities.



Best regards,


Chillen

 

[Drex]

Thanks for taking so much time to respond to this Chillen.

I have been very accurate with counting calories. Everything I have consumed has been recorded into fitday. I can't verify how many calories I actually burned, but I have entered in activities accurately. I am relying on the information on calories burned to be correct.

I had hoped to be down to a point where I could stop losing weight at the end of Sept and start working on bulking. I really think another 6-8 lbs is all I need to take off. As it stands now I will continue to work on cutting. I will try some of the options you listed.

Thank you for the help.

Drex

 

[Chillen]

You are welcome.........Im all about rocken "da Brotha's"

Any more questions or help........let me know......


And,


uh,


ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!