Diet v Exercise difference!

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Pmarc

New member
Disregarding the pain of either method, is it true or false that 500 cal burned by excersise will yield the same as 500 cal avoided, by diet?
 
No. exercise has long lasting effects on burning cals. you continue burning cals after you stop exercising. resistance exercise can even have an effect of up to 48 hours.
anyway the calorie is a poor measure of energy when it comes to weight loss.
 
ThinHappy40 said:
No. exercise has long lasting effects on burning cals. you continue burning cals after you stop exercising. resistance exercise can even have an effect of up to 48 hours.
anyway the calorie is a poor measure of energy when it comes to weight loss.
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Thanx. While I awaited your reply... my physical therapist told me about the same. Now the question is... how substantial is the exercise difference. We concluded its probably a small net gain. Perhaps 10% more effective to combexercise with diet. Do you agree? No doubt it varies between people.
 
i think its to simplified to say the difference will be small. what is your ultimate goal? what are you trying to figure out?
 
Oddly, I look terrible but I'm at my target weight of 161 lbs (I'm 5' 7"). Hard to figure.

My stomach looks like I'm in my 2nd trimester :). Age 62. The goal is to get thin - probably remove an inch+ from my waistline. So now I'm not sure if diet is the answer (although I havent abandoned my 2-week old diet... cutting 800 cal's daily).
 
What you are describing is known as skinny fat, What is your bodyfat %

Simply cutting calories at this point is not the whole answer, you need to be building/maintaining muscle through weight bearing exercise, not just for you appearance but for your bone health. It is not all about calories but also your balance of macro nutrients especially your protein intake.
 
there is no such thing as skinny fat, it is a fad term with no scientific proof. it is normal at your age to gain weight in your mid section. this is due to the decrease in hormones as you get older. these are clinically proven facts not fad terms.

are you male or female? im assuming female from trimester comment. if female have you completed menopause? did you go on hrt? these are all important factors to consider when trying to get fit and lose weight at 62.

weight bearing exercise can be extremely dangerous at your age. do not start until you get the advice of a medical professional. please provide more information as requested and i will try to provide more information.
 
Skinny fat is a term used when a person is of normal weight but still having a bodyfat % in the unhealthy range for their age and sex. Weight bearing exercise is not dangerous for those in a higher age range, in fact it is highly recommended for general health and the prevention of osteoporosis.

https://www.iofbonehealth.org/exercise-recommendations (international Osteoporosis foundation) recommendations for men are at the bottom

weight bearing exercise does not mean jumping into the gym and lifting a ton of weight without proper experience or supervision, weight bearing exercise can be as simple as climbing stairs or playing a relaxed game of tennis. Basically any exercise where you are bearing your own weight or holding moderate weight in your hands (tennis racket for example)

yes a doctors clearance for starting an exercise program is suggested for those of all ages but unless you have major health problems this is usually given a happy go ahead my almost all medical professionals.
 
no scientific proof again, skinny fat is not a scientific term. it is a fad term with no clinical backing. please only science backed information.
please dont be so assuming when giving out information, you told an overweight 62 year old to build muscle through weight bearing exercise, what if that person got injured, your statement was reckless and you should retract it for the safety of the forum.

" Basically any exercise where you are bearing your own weight or holding moderate weight "
you are incorrect again because every exercise bears your own weight, its called gravity. so standing on a spot is a weight bearing exercise.

"this is usually given a happy go ahead my almost all medical professionals." do not make assumptions for medical professionals, this is misleading people, it is difficult to define major and minor health problems.
 
That's correct gravity has a lot to do with weight bearing exercise, the definition for which is :

"Exercise during which the body works against the force of gravity and the feet and legs carry a person's weight. Examples include walking, jogging and dancing."

Non weight bearing exercise includes exercise like swimming where most of the bodies weight is supported by water.

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/healthy-bones/Pages/exercises-for-strong-bones.aspx The NHS defines weight bearing exercise as "any activity performed standing up, such as walking, running and dancing."

Skinny fat may not be the scientific term however “MONW,” or Metabolically Obese Normal Weight is. Which means you can have a normal BMI but still be fat along with all the health concerns which go with it.

Some further information on MONW

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/47/5/699
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/h06-092#.WUoEW-uGPIU


As an exercise professional along with also being qualified as an allied health professional and member of Sports Medicine Australia I have not given any advice outside of professional guidelines.
 
Diet and exercise are both necessary for healthy, strong and attractive body. There is no reason to reduce the hugely significant role of exercise in order to diet. It is true that, you can easily burn fat through exercise. With no exercise, a person will be required to maintain a very low calorie diet, which is not mainly pleasant, healthy or reasonable. Diet control weight loss also puts the concentrate on deprivation on food, instead of the growth and increase in strength and stamina comes by exercise. Exercise improves self efficacy and confidence which in turn can improve the chance that a person makes smart food choices. But in the last, both are important for weight loss.
 
so you think a 62 year old who describes his abdomen as 2nd trimester is skinny fat. because thats what you said above and now you say skinny fat is monw. this is the most unscientific non clinical information i have heard on this forum.

you do not have a clinical background and should not be giving clinical information, especially based on the non scientific comments you have made in this thread.
 
I'm 161 lbs, male, 5'7. I know how to workout and what my limits are. Next.

The complexity for me is quantifying the exercise, and the mix of diet and exercise...now that we agree diet alone is not the best approach to eliminate the extra 1-2 inches on my waistline. Is there a way to do the calculations? Prefer at home, not the gym.

***(My trimester remark was a joke... forgot no one knew my gender, til now).
 
Pmarc said:
I'm 161 lbs, male, 5'7. I know how to workout and what my limits are. Next.

The complexity for me is quantifying the exercise, and the mix of diet and exercise...now that we agree diet alone is not the best approach to eliminate the extra 1-2 inches on my waistline. Is there a way to do the calculations? Prefer at home, not the gym.

***(My trimester remark was a joke... forgot no one knew my gender, til now).
Click to expand...

Many of the calorie tracking sites will be able to estimate your calorie usage from exercise and that is all it will ever be in a gym or home location, wearing a heart rate monitor can help but it is still only an estimate. A gym is not needed if it not what you want.
 
ThinHappy40 said:
please dont be so assuming when giving out information, you told an overweight 62 year old to build muscle through weight bearing exercise, what if that person got injured, your statement was reckless and you should retract it for the safety of the forum.

" Basically any exercise where you are bearing your own weight or holding moderate weight "
you are incorrect again because every exercise bears your own weight, its called gravity. so standing on a spot is a weight bearing exercise.
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Hi all,

Responding to resistance training advice for elderly populations:

I don't think this information from Trusylver is all that assuming? There has been literature around for years now advocating the benefits of both endurance - and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle health in ageing populations: for review see (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Exercise+improves+mitochondrial+and+redox-regulated+stress+responses+in+the+elderly:+better+late+than+never!). Obviously you have to be cleared medically for your own safety, but nowhere in this thread has advocated performing such activities in pathological conditions.






Responding to weight bearing discussion:

Swimming - No joint loading
Cycling - Marginal weight bearing
Running - Lots of weight bearing

These are some valid differences - worthy of noting especially in older populations...

Standing on the spot, (the last time i checked) is not classed as part of anyone's daily physical activity recommendations? - yes there are benefits to prolonged standing vs sitting but i feel like that comment may have been a bit tongue in cheek.

Moderate activity (when cleared by a doctor or trainer) - as long as it involves the force of gravity (i.e. you are exercising on foot - or resisting your own body weight) is loading exercise - as joint forces and countermovement forces are increased as activity becomes more vigorous - stimulating both a muscular and skeletal adaptation to the given stimulus.

Also, from what Pmarc has said, based on his height and weight, off the top of my head that is a BMI of around 26... Not anywhere near the range to be causing significant problems providing he is physically well enough to be carrying out exercise. (The bottom bracket of this BMI is 25 so you are at the lower end of the "overweight" categorisation.

Pmarc, to answer your query, I agree with Lesa's comment. Because there is limited background information available on your training history, it is simply impossible to be specific here. As a general guide, there is a beneficial balance to nutrition and physical activity. If you sacrifice quality of one, for focus on another, maybe it needs some re-evaluation.

As age becomes a factor, there are natural losses that begin to occur in the body. Body fat %, unfortunately is not one of these as skeletal muscle health and metabolism deteriorates with age, along with many other cellular processes for keeping our bodies healthy. One thing is for sure, eating healthily and exercising regularly (and sensibly) will certainly help maintain general health if nothing else :) - depending on how much you would like to change your body & health should determine the amount of effort you are willing to put in in order to do so - The obvious step for you wanting to break through some current barriers is contacting a well-respected trainer in your area that has a long history of helping elderly clients with safe and effective weight loss :)

Hope this helps
 
it was assuming, you can not give out advice to an elderly person without full details or specifics and it should be retracted. it started with the poorly informed skinny fat comment similar to your stubborn fat comment.

before you contact a trainer, contact a doctor, i have seen too many elderly people injured by trainers. even the best trainers. look for a trainer that has a sports science, or physical therapy degree. someone with clinical knowledge who studied at a tertiary institute and get it approved by your doctor first. there are too many trainers who read one or two studies and think they are qualified on medical and clinical issues. these trainers are extremely dangerous to elderly people.

a hip, knee or back injury in an elderly person is often irreversible and not worth the risk. so dishing out weight bearing exercise in a non specific manner is extremely dangerous. i hope you can understand this.
 
ThinHappy40 makes some great recommendations here to add to the previous posts - safety first is key.

This discussion should be tailored to help people know what they need to do if they are having a similar problem, and how they can do it safely and effectively. To summarize from the above, so there is no confusion:

Doctors clearance
Seek professional (Accredited person)
Undertake safe & appropriate exercise regime

Details on the above can be found in the above threads :)





Just to add a bit of light hearted discussion - lax terminology on this forum such as "skinny fat" should be (in my opinion) taken with a pinch of salt - Just because some individuals may know the ins and outs of human metabolism, i.e. ThinHappy40 having pharmaceutical expertise, not everyone on this forum does - especially not the people asking for advice.

Using that term doesn't actually make a difference to recommending strategies to help people with their issues - this forum is designed to help people understand and grasp principles to diet & exercise which are highly complex....

Can you have a BMI of < 25 and have > 25% body fat? yes....

could you help someone grasp the understand as to why that may be unhealthy by naming it "skinny fat"... Probably...

Is that a valid scientific term to use? - obviously not...

Do we all know this... Yes....

Spouting terms such as "adipocity" will really not help anyone grasp useful information which is why i don't feel like someone should be criticized for using it innocently.

I think the word i would use is "context" - There is a difference between misguided / harmful information & lax terminology that may help someone grasp the topic of a specific point. That type of nitpicking should be left to the scientific peer-review process.

Anyway, have a good day :)
 
I think both @Trusylver and @ThinHappy40 are right. SkinnyFat may not be a scientific term, but it is still an accurate picture of what happens when someone does not do any exercise and only loses weight through dieting / calorie cutting. Two people that are identical in gender, age, and weight can look completely different because of muscle-to-fat. SkinnyFat just means that someone has little to no muscle weight. When they step on the scale, they feel skinny, but are still flabby in many areas compared to someone else of the same weight.

Someone who has not done any weight training and is older should not jump right into weight training without consulting their doctor. If they are overweight and have heart conditions, starting in a pool might be the ideal place to start. However, I see many people, including my dad, who is almost 70, in the gym pushing weight, along with many others in the same age category that are doing body-weight exercises.

But, someone who is 20 can have the exact same issues, so it's pretty much a given to say that you should consult your doctor before exercising.

The same is true when referring to dieting, but how many people do that?
 
Great post.
 
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