Criminal or Hero?

Monster2

New member
As far as I'm concerned, the kid deserves a medal. What do you expect when you preach only hate? geez....... :ack2:
One less Nazi in the world! :patriot:
(So I don't seem like such a terrible person, I understand the boy has gone through a lot of mental trauma and I could even feel bad for him, if I weren't so darned proud!)
I also found this ironic: Leticia Neal is his mother's name. Not only is it a name usually associated with Black women, it was Halle Barry's name in the movie Monster's Ball.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, the kid deserves a medal. What do you expect when you preach only hate? geez....... :ack2:
One less Nazi in the world! :patriot:
(So I don't seem like such a terrible person, I understand the boy has gone through a lot of mental trauma and I could even feel bad for him, if I weren't so darned proud!)
I also found this ironic: Leticia Neal is his mother's name. Not only is it a name usually associated with Black women, it was Halle Barry's name in the movie Monster's Ball.

It's not ok for the dad to be a white supremacist and simply preach a message (albeit a hateful one), but it's ok for the kid to MURDER someone? And, you think he deserves a medal for doing so?

Yeah, that makes sense.
 
It's not ok for the dad to be a white supremacist and simply preach a message (albeit a hateful one), but it's ok for the kid to MURDER someone? And, you think he deserves a medal for doing so?

Yeah, that makes sense.

No.. I think he deserves a medal for killing a Nazi. It happened all the time back in the 40s.
AND if I had to pick, YES, I believe the father is worse. Charismatic leaders that spread messages of hate are the very worst humanity has to offer because sadly, the weak minded and in ignorant are quick to follow. Remember that Adolf guy? He never personally killed anyone. And neither did Charles Manson, for that matter.
 
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Murder is never okay, in my opinion. I can't really explain why I feel the way I do about it--At least, I can't articulate it properly for a debate. But I agree with Chef. Maybe I'll have more to say about it if others put forward their opinions.

I just keep thinking of a quote I heard.."An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." I know it does not really apply to this but I think fighting hate with hate is not the solution. Although I don't have a better one.
 
I'm going to be a pedant here for a minute and say that if he's in breach of the criminal law in the relevant jurisdiction, and is at or above the age of criminal responsibility (the latter seems to be the case, given a trial is happening), then by definition he is a criminal.

That being said, a) I'm not sure ten year olds should be regarded as legally responsible for their actions (no, not even killing someone) as they're too young to take in all relevant factors (I think 12-13 is a more appropriate age, and 16-18 to be tried as an adult), and/ but b) killing someone is a bad thing to do in almost all circumstances (barring things like self-defence) and so I wouldn't say he was a hero.
 
Okay guys.. Really.. I'm not stupid. I'm aware that the murder of father was probably not a heroic act, and was said to not have anything to do with his neo-nazi affiliations.
HOWEVER... Murder is not murder. This guy was GENOCIDAL. By affiliating himself with the Nazi party, we can assume that he advocated the death of every non white human. And even many of the whites, including Jews and gays. As a neonazi "leader" We can further assume that he encouraged others to be on board with him to advocated the killing of non whites.
In my book, anyone who advocates for the death of many others is pretty much not a good person.
Really, should I have any feelings for the life of people who support Nazis?
Nope. They would rather see me dead. And most of you too.
Really.. Nazis wiped out A LOT of people, from Gypsies to Christian leaders. (True Nazism has its own sort of pagan religion)
 
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I really don't agree. OK, if I was in a hypothetical situation where I had 20 people and I had to choose half of them to be killed, then (barring any way out of this) people like that guy would be on my hit list. Outside such utterly unrealistic situations, I don't want to kill anyone, ever (or have someone's life ended prematurely without their direct consent), except maybe if it was heat-of-the-moment he's-got-a-knife/gun and it's him or me/ someone I care about.
 
Still my point remains. By celebrating the death of someone so filled with hate, we too take part in that hate. The article says "Authorities believe the shooting was intentional but declined to comment on a motive — except to say they do not believe Hall's neo-Nazi affiliation played a role.." The kid was disturbed. They are implying that his fathers Nazism was not related.

Either way, murder is murder. That's like saying that pedophiles want to hurt and abuse children so they themselves ought to be hurt and abused. That because they wish death on others, they are deserving of death or that we should celebrate their death. Does that not make us similar to them?
It does not matter whether the dad was genocidal or not--Wanting the death of people and actually committing the crime are different. I think his opinions and views are vile and disgusting but he is/was entitled to them, the same way we all are. It doesn't make him a good person, it makes him a bad person in the eyes of society. But it doesn't mean he should die for his views.

I don't have feelings for his life--I just don't agree that he should have been murdered for his views (although by the sounds of the article the fact that he was a Nazi is mere coincidence and is just being used by the media as a shock tactic".
 
I find it very ironic that despite the article saying ""Authorities believe the shooting was intentional but declined to comment on a motive — except to say they do not believe Hall's neo-Nazi affiliation played a role" it is pretty much all that is mentioned in the headline and article.
 
We may choose to not celebrate his death, but equally we can feel that it no great loss to society.

Put another way, if we could choose someone to be murdered, this guy would likely have been on the list of probables. Like OBL.
 
It's simple. He's neither. The boy is a victim, not a criminal, and certainly not a hero.

He killed somebody. That will stick with him for the rest of his life. Whether he did it intentionally or not doesn't really matter. If he did, then it is fair to say that he has deep psychological issues that might take a long time to resolve, if it is possible at all. If it wasn't intentional, then he will have to live with knowing that he killed his father for the rest of his days.

His father sounded like a despiccable person. I will not assume that he was a killer, or killer to be, or that his Nazi tendencies would have gone far enough to actually do more than protest in front of synagoges. We don't know that. We can't say 'Well, nazis used to kill people, so he would have killed somebody eventually, so he deserved to die.' It doesn't work like that. You can't judge somebody on the grounds of what might or might not happen in the future.

By hailing the boy a hero, and appreciating the fact that he killed his father, you put yourself on the same level as said father. You are no better than those Nazis that wanted every non-white person dead. There is a person, a Nazi, with extreme views that clash with everything you believe in. That person hasn't commited a crime though, he is merely voicing his opinion. It is a very unpopular, disgusting opinion, but still - he has the right to say what he thinks.

Now you don't agree with him, so you want him dead? Isn't that exactly what the angry little Austrian man with the moustache did (And yes, he was Austrian, NOT German)? Removing everybody from the face of the earth that didn't fit into his warped, sick picture of what society should be like. Do you know how many Germans died because they didn't agree with what he was doing? He didn't just kill those that weren't white, he killed everybody who didn't agree with his ideas and ideals. (Or had them killed, since I don't think he actually bothered to do it himself).

Applauding this child for killing his father is the same thing. You think somebody deserves to be killed because they don't live up to your standards. Because they don't fit into the picture of what YOU think is right or wrong. There is absolutely no difference between that way of thinking, and other extremists. Your hate is no different than theirs, it is just directed at something different.

Just to clarify, in case there is any doubt, and to avoid any misunderstandings:
I do not condone racism in any shape, form or fashion. I think Nazis are the lowest of the low, and I do believe that the world is certainly a better place without that guy spouting his hate everywhere.

That said, at the end of the day, a 10 year old boy took a human life. No matter what we thought of that life, it's tragic, and the boy will be traumatized forever, by the event, the trial, and whatever might happen afterwards. If anything, I feel deeply sorry for him.

And on a completely different note....why would a known Neo-Nazi get custody of children??? What the hell is wrong with people????
 
Was waiting for someone to articulate properly how I felt! Thanks San--Agree with everything you said.

And I know! Imagine what the mother must have been like for the dad to get custody!!
 
Dude, I just posted that we should agree to disagree because I could have launched into a discussion about why I disagreed and stuff but we would have been going around in circles because we just don't agree about it. Which is fine. I like us having different opionins which is why we can debate. I think it's better to just say, well, I think this and you think this, why don't we just leave it at that because it's not the sort of thing you can change someones mind about.

It's not a big deal..
 
And you went out of your way to respond to my 6 word post rather than everyone else's well thought out and much longer posts. Don't take it so personally, I'm just saying I disagree. It happens. If people all had the same opinions, life would be boring.
 
No.. I think he deserves a medal for killing a Nazi. It happened all the time back in the 40s.
AND if I had to pick, YES, I believe the father is worse. Charismatic leaders that spread messages of hate are the very worst humanity has to offer because sadly, the weak minded and in ignorant are quick to follow. Remember that Adolf guy? He never personally killed anyone. And neither did Charles Manson, for that matter.

The second you start comparing someone to Adolf Hitler, you have proven that you have backbone to your point of view.

NOPE.... We celebrate the fact that this world is a better place.

How do you know? Seriously, how do you know? You don't know what influence, whether it be positive or negative, that father had on anybody. All you know is that he was a white supremist, nothing more. He might've done a lot of good for this world, so how do you know that this world is a better place because he's dead now?

And, to be fair, the same might be able to be said about you if you were to have been killed. Or me. Or anyone. So, what's your point?
 
We didn't hear about this at all in Australia (we have our own monsters), but how I pity the poor child - he is a small-m monster, created by a MONSTER, who lived by the sword and died by the sword.

Whatever the sentence, I hope he recovers from his upbringing and goes on to live a happy, balanced life. It's all SO sad!
 
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