concerns and confusion about weight loss/muscle gain

J

James32123

New member
Hi everyone. I started dieting about 3 months ago and iv also been doing cardio bout 6 days a week..this is mostly power walking.. and weight training every second day. iv lost about 10-15 pounds..i tend not to look at the scale so much.
so far im happy with the amount of fat lost and im not TOO dissapointed with amount of muscle iv put on. but im worried im not consuming enough calories. iv been eating alot of things with protein like tuna, chicken breast and lean cuts of pork. im pretty sure im consuming between 50-80 grams of potein a day. i think my diet is pretty much balanced.
anyway im 20, male, 6" 2' and weigh 165 pounds so my bmi is just over whats considered under weight. which im deffinately not happy with. right now the only bits of visable excess body fat is on my waist and stomach..but its really not much. iv been taking in about 1750 calories a day. i just wanted to know if any1 in here thinks i should be consuming closer to 2500 seeing as though im doing so much excersise and i dnt have that much fat left to lose. the thing is i really want to get rid of my love handles so i dnt wna stop losing fat just yet. im also worried that im not putting on as much muscle as i should coz of my low calorie intake.
is 1750 too low? is it possible my metabolisim would b faster if i was eating more? is it y i still hav a gut and i weigh so little? and is it possible im burning the muscle im trying so hard to put on? if anybody can offer any advice itd b hugely appreciated. thanks :)
 
James32123 said:
Hi everyone. I started dieting about 3 months ago and iv also been doing cardio bout 6 days a week..this is mostly power walking.. and weight training every second day. iv lost about 10-15 pounds..i tend not to look at the scale so much.
so far im happy with the amount of fat lost and im not TOO dissapointed with amount of muscle iv put on. but im worried im not consuming enough calories. iv been eating alot of things with protein like tuna, chicken breast and lean cuts of pork. im pretty sure im consuming between 50-80 grams of potein a day. i think my diet is pretty much balanced.
anyway im 20, male, 6" 2' and weigh 165 pounds so my bmi is just over whats considered under weight. which im deffinately not happy with. right now the only bits of visable excess body fat is on my waist and stomach..but its really not much. iv been taking in about 1750 calories a day. i just wanted to know if any1 in here thinks i should be consuming closer to 2500 seeing as though im doing so much excersise and i dnt have that much fat left to lose. the thing is i really want to get rid of my love handles so i dnt wna stop losing fat just yet. im also worried that im not putting on as much muscle as i should coz of my low calorie intake.
is 1750 too low? is it possible my metabolisim would b faster if i was eating more? is it y i still hav a gut and i weigh so little? and is it possible im burning the muscle im trying so hard to put on? if anybody can offer any advice itd b hugely appreciated. thanks :)
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A man your size and weight should eat at least 150 grams of protein per day. 50-80 is way way too low
 
Research is shotty at best wrt protein requirements. I'd like to say that nobody really knows anything conclusive at this point... I base my reqs on empirical evidence and they fall in line with what most of the people who know a lot more than me recommend.

For the data showing that exercise increases protein reqs, the stuff that nobody ever likes to talk about is that it has also been shown to decrease them under certain circumstances because consistent training improves protein utilization.

So I doubt the above poster actually has any strong data.
 
I just wanted to know if he had any reason for that number. The only sites I could find that said a person that weighed ~160 pounds needed 150g of protein were sites that were also selling whey.

IIRC "recommended" was ~60g / day. Even doubling that you still only come up with 120g.
 
What are your thoughts on protein requirements?

Are you suggesting that you'd recommend 60 grams to this individual?
 
There's no 'study' for how much protein consumption is 'better' than other. However I do believe in eating around the same amounts of protein as you weight in grams. So if you weigh 140lbs, then eat around 140g of protein. I dont have a scientific article I can paste or anything, but I do know that protein consumption is important for gaining and maintaining muscle mass, and I also know that eating the same amount of protein as your body weight won't hurt you. But not eating enough protein can have a negative effect on your muscle maintenance.

The RDA recommends 0.8g protein per KG of weight as a MINIMUM, and even that is recommended for sedentary adults I believe.
 
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is there really a good method, that's accessible to regular people that determines lean body mass though? there are all sorts of calculators on the web, but I doubt the accuracy of most of them...
 
Nope, not that I'm confident with. But I wouldn't sweat it since trying to be exact is futile. As long as you are in the ballpark, that's what matters.
 
that's kinda what I figured -i've read the 1gram per lean body mass before but i've never seena really good answer on how to get to that lean body mass number :)

I like protein - and eat lots of it :D
 
Hello everyone,

I would definitely be eating more protein. Being someone who has a lot fat to lose, you'd definitely benefit from more protein. The thermogenic effect of protein is higher than carbohydrates and fat. This means just by ingesting more protein you burn more calories. Personally, I think you need to lower your carbs and focus on protein and vegetables with each meal. Eat every 2-3 hours and you should see some pretty good results.
 
paulyost said:
Hello everyone,

I would definitely be eating more protein. Being someone who has a lot fat to lose, you'd definitely benefit from more protein. The thermogenic effect of protein is higher than carbohydrates and fat. This means just by ingesting more protein you burn more calories. Personally, I think you need to lower your carbs and focus on protein and vegetables with each meal. Eat every 2-3 hours and you should see some pretty good results.
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The research is shotty at best with regards to the TEF on specific macros.
 
Steve,

Have you read anything by Dr. John Berardi? He might provide some insight and cause you to change your mind?
 
I've read everything from Berardi. He's good.

At taking research and turning into something it's not.

Great author, very intelligent. But doubt he'll change my mind.

If I'm going to hang onto someone's words (which I'm more the type to do my own research) I'm going to listen to Lyle McDonald before I listen to JB.

People like to throw out figures of 30% TEF for protein and 4% for fat/carbs, but thats cherry picking the research to come up with figures that suit your desired paradigm. The research on TEF is mixed, and quite poor. With no standardized protocols and no standardized meals it becomes an exercise in futility. Most research examines TEM, or thermic effect of a meal, rather than the wider thermic effect of food.

The foods utilized do no allow accurate assessment of the effects of any of the macronutrients. Few trials actually compare like for like foods to actually allow any corroboration of the evidence base, and those that do show little relationship of the data.

The data with the higher range of TEF from protein was, from memory - one paper, compared to others that showed far far smaller effects, almost reaching equivalence with fat/carbs at one point.

Research just doesn't rate much of an effect from TEF in the overall picture of weight loss, because the effect, will be minimal and outsides the bounds of measurement accuracy.
 
Steve,

I have more than one resource stating this. Sports Nutrition for Health and Performance is one that comes to mind from Manore. If you want to get technical with research, it can be "bent" to read whatever you want it to say. So, really, you could go either way with it. Personally, I like to think some professionals like John Berardi know what they're talking about. Either way, it has been proven time and time again that going on a low(er) carbohydrate diet helps people lose fat better than all other dieting strategies. Is this partially related to TEF? I think so. You obviously don't.
 
Incidentally, I'd be interested in seeing the research behind your statements.

There are some pieces that show greater weight/fat loss with lower carb, but typically they are in the free living environment where measurement is difficult. Personally, in studies where absolute control of intake is not practiced, I tend not to consider them as valid. If you've been personal training long enough with average/overweight populations, you know as well as I that self-reporting intake doesn't work for personal use, let alone for research parameters.

Protein matched, low carb diets don't appear to offer a whole lot over a higher carb equivalent.

I like them, as long as they include lots of veges/some fruits and stuff, because they are easier for me to maintain at a low calorie intake.

However, as for some sort of metabolic advantage existing, as you seem to be indicating.... I just don't see it in the research nor do I buy it.

I'll add that I don't want you to take me wrong. I definitely think there are times when a lower/low/moderate carb approach is called for. But it has be be in line with the clients goals and personal preferences. I'm soooo not a fan of black/white thinking as I've helped enough people lose weight to know that some people respond better to a low carb approach and some vice versa.

My take, for what it's worth.....

For some segments of the population, it may be better, but even the research on these are limited in quantity and quality and the research is really what I've been responding to wrt your posts, and not the empirical evidence.

Overweight bodies are suffering from years of chronic energy excess and lack of exercise, Insulin sensitivity has dropped off majorly, and they are not responding to carbs the way that normal people do. So lowering carbs enables them to drop their chronically high insulin somewhat.

Weight loss appears to increase sensitivity regardless of actual type of diet, low carb, high carb, or whatever. Potentially the low carb lowers insulin enough for adipose to release a bit more fat. Or lowering insulin influences food intake helping them eat less, but the current studies do not allow the ability to check that sufficiently.
 
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The thermic benefit of macronutrient splicing is negligible. While it is true that protein has a larger thermic effect than carbs/fats when ingested separately, similar calorie boluses (combinations) have the largest thermic effect of all. And considering most bolus samples are 30/30/40 (carb heavy) it shows that the overall benefit of a low carb diet isn't from increasing one's metabolism.

Ecologically speaking it's patently obvious that you have satiation with a diet heavy in fats and protein. Limiting exposure to carbs reduces caloric intakes because it is way harder to gouge on protein/fat than nicely refined/easily digestable carbs.

Also, as we did through some meta-analysis of the literature, eating every 2-3 hours is simply unnecessary. It's fool's gold.

So Steve is right, and although your high protein advice is good Paul, the premises it is founded upon need some re-adjusting.

Michael
 
Steve said:
What are your thoughts on protein requirements?

Are you suggesting that you'd recommend 60 grams to this individual?
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(sorry 'bout the delayed response... the weekend was a little too good, and this is the first time I've seen a computer since last friday).

I'm not saying that I would recommend 60g to this person. I just said that was the FDA's recommended blanket serving, and I wanted to know the person's rationale for multiplying that by 2.5. I wanted to know if there was a solid rationale behind it, and not just some arbitrary number that was thrown out there.

My personal thoughts are that people today (specifically people just starting exercising) overeat the hell out of protein. I know that in a typical day, I personally don't come close to touching 150g of protein per day, and I am 319 lbs and in training for a touring rugby team. Maybe I'm in the wrong in a big way here (which seems to be true after reading all of this), but my stance has always been that if I grill a chicken breast or two after a workout, and include some form of protein at each meal(usually ~4) that I was good, and the team nutritionist agreed with me.

Maybe I'll take the next couple of weeks and count my protein and see if I personally find a difference / enjoy the difference in eating 220 - 250g of protein. I pity the dolphins, though, cause that is a LOT of cans of tuna.
 
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