Concerned about deficit? Want to add more exercise....

Doc_Jim

Doc_Jim

New member
Greetings,
I haven't been on this forum for a few years,....but I am glad to see it's still going strong. Good job.

So after losing about 40lbs over a good period.....and then maintaining for awhile I decided to continue.
Did RFL for a bit and dropped another clip of weight. Stopped, maintained.....zig zagged a bit with some higher cal periods and some lower...and now to continue to goal of apprx 200-210lbs.

age 40 - weight 233 - height 6'2 - bfat% roughly 20% . Sedentary day job (office).

After maintaining for several months with a roughg weekly average...some weeks surplus...some weeks deficit...weight zig-zagged from 230 - 235. Exercise was minimal.

1 month ago started slowy introducing more exercise: walking 1 hour (down/up mountain in woods). Weights 3x week.

Started monitoring things with my Gowear Fit device:
average daily burn on days with no exercise at all: 3000cal
average daily burn on days with mountain walking: 3500cal
average daily burn on days with weight training: 3500cal
average daily burn on days with weights AND walking: 4000cal

My diet the first 2 weeks was apprx 1800cal per day m-thur and 2600cal per day fri,sat, sunday which averaged a weekly intake of 15000
My weekly cal burn per week the first 2 weeks was apprx 24500
This yields a 9500cal deficit for the week.
My weight didnt move a lb. Pants/clothes the same.

Diet is clean. (no...seriously. Clean). Sun-Thur: typical intake: 1800cal 58fat 44carb 250prot. Fri-Sun intake: apprx 2400-2800cal 140fat 140carb 200prot

So I have been slowly increasing the deficit for the last 2 weeks. Changing the walking to jogging....doing more days of morning jogging/evening weights....etc.
Had a few 4700kcal burn days as well (long mtn hikes).

My weight training is a full body routine 3X a week. I lift as heavy as possible, minimal rest (1min). Alot of supersets....and will often do ab work in the rest period between sets. Very intense. My strength levels have gone up "slightly". No loss of performance at all. Feel great. Not tired. Full of energy.
The scale still isnt moving. I am looking much toner,....definition is coming in.....but no scale movement and no pants loosening.
Am I in too much of a deficit?.....or not enough of one?

I am really loving working out this much,...and have the time and lifestyle to support it.
I need help in determining how large of a deficit I can maintain (via exercise) wihout causing "trouble" and/or stalling my progress.
I am aware that exercising heavily while eating too little can seriously slow/stall progress, HOWEVER if you are eating a good amount can you support an overall higher deficit? Or am I simply way off base? (and why?)

As I want to raise the deficit.....I feel like I can do so with more excercise...as long as I dont eat too little calories. And adjust cals up on high output days as well.
But where is the limit?

I'd appreciate any thoughts?
 
If you see definition coming in then you probably are losing some fat. After all, if you are gaining muscle but staying the same weight, it has to come from somewhere. It probably means you are retaining water. That will end on its own - although I've heard that eating for a day at maintenance level calories can hurry the 'whoosh' along. Kara has a link to an article squishy fat and whooshes that explains what goes on in more detail. The pants not loosening means that either the water weight is staying on your waist or that the fat is peeling off of other areas first. Not much you can do about where the fat comes from. :/ I'd definitely say your problem is not having too small of a deficit.

As for the questions about limits - unfortunately it's all very specific to the individual. So in order to find out if you're in too big of a deficit you have a couple options. 1) Wait another couple weeks to see if you have a huge whoosh and break your plateau. 2) Eat at maintenance for a couple of days and see if that spikes a plateau break. 3) Up calories slightly overall and see if that makes a difference. 4) Cut back on your exercises. (Possibly do this first if your main goal is fat loss since diet has a much greater effect on weight loss than exercise).

To me, based on the fact that you're not at a super extreme deficit, and you still feel strong in your workouts, I would assume it's just water weight and either wait it out, or try the 1 day at maintenance. At most I'd go up to body weight * 10 - 2330 calories average, but I don't think your intake is that low. If anything, it may be doing too much working out. Having to be patient sucks. :p
 
I appreciate your thoughts Jeanette.

By my current calculations, and looking at the latest Gowear data, which reflects the increased running....this week looks to be the following:
Calorie intake: 14,288
Calorie burn: 26,436 (assuming I stick to my current workout)
Deficit for week (fri to fri): 12,148 calories
 
Yeah, you're averaging not that far below 2300 calories - works out to 2041 a day. You could increase food, but I don't think that's the issue.

It seems like your options are to cut back on your exercise or just stick it out for a while longer. :/ Here's the link I mentioned about whooshes that may give you more insight into what's going on.

On the positive side, if you're seeing more definition you at least have a visible sign that things are changing for the better so hopefully that will make it easier to tolerate the scale not budging!
 
Thx again.

I have read that article, and alot of other stuff on Lyle's site. Even lost a good bit doing RFL....

I kind of 'know' my body,....and I dont plateau this long unless I am doing something wrong. I do hold out a bit here and there.....maybe for 3-6 days and then whoosh!

But I have been averaging pretty substantial deficits of 3-4lbs a week....for several weeks and "maybe" losing .5 - 1lb a week....if at all. That is a bit more than the 'whoosh' theory at play I fear.

Your math matches mine as well:
Averaged (over a week) daily intake of 2041 cals
Averaged (over a week) daily burn of 3776 cals
This yields an 'averaged daily' deficit of 1731 cals a day.....which should 'in theory' yield 3.5lbs of fat loss.
I understand reality,.....but to do numbers like that consistently and only drop .5 - 1lb. Makes me concerned.

I guess I can give it more time? I do not wish to cut back on exercise as I am really getting into it and feel great!
When I did RFL I barely worked out (if at all)....ate maybe 1Kcal a day....and lost weight at about 3lbs a week. Problem was....I felt like crap.
Now,...I am kicking *ss....feel on top of the world......but 4 weeks in and maybe lost 2 lbs.

Thanks again Jeanette!
 
Yeah... I actually know someone on another forum who literally can't work out too much or his weight loss stalls - he still loses fat, and gains muscle, but his weight loss just doesn't go as much unless he cuts back on the activity and watches his diet like a hawk.

Normally my next thought would be that maybe you're somehow underestimating your intake, but it sounds like you've been at this a while and have it under control. (Unless somehow the GWF software sucks big time, and that's what you're using - but I've heard it's normally accurate within 5%)

So unless you want to just wait another couple weeks... you may have to look at cutting back on the exercise. Unfortunately, you're not going to get the kind of deficit that would give you 3.5 lbs a week without also cutting back further on your food... I guess the only real question is can you find the sweet spot where you're still losing 1.5 to 2 lbs by doing less work. Unless you just want to keep going until you're all hulked out as long as you're losing fat and gaining muscle. I imagine there are some 'hard gainers' who might love to have your problem.
 
Jeanette pretty much said everything I'd have said here.

I honestly think that cutting back on the working out might help you see some movement. I think the intensity of the weight lifting you're doing could be causing you to retain fluid. Also you don't say anything about sodium .. are you watching the amount of sodium you're taking in?
 
Thanks!

Agree......I will most likely give this a few weeks and see how it goes.

I do watch my sodium. I am consistent....so therefore it really shouldnt affect any scale movement or clothes loosening.

I might have a few high sodium meals on the weekend,....and then the scale rises,...and then on monday its back to normal.

Thanks again,....
 
From everything I've read, when you near that 20% BF mark average male isn't going to lose more than a 1-1.5lbs of fat per week, with the rest being lean tissue.

Also 3000 calories a day with a sedentary job sounds quite high.
 
Also 3000 calories a day with a sedentary job sounds quite high.
Click to expand...
Where are you getting 3000 calories from? The OP is eating around 2500 calories a day, which, given his height and weight and amount of activity working out seems pretty much right on target.
 
Doc_Jim said:
Started monitoring things with my Gowear Fit device:
average daily burn on days with no exercise at all: 3000cal
average daily burn on days with mountain walking: 3500cal
average daily burn on days with weight training: 3500cal
average daily burn on days with weights AND walking: 4000cal
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was referring to the calories burned, not consumed.
 
Why do you think 3000 calories is high for someone who is 6'3" and weighs 233 lbs? That's pretty much spot on for a male of that size.
 
Agree. The 3K per day without exercise seems about right for my size. Not too mention, it used to be about 2800 a day....but once I started working out so much, and doing so much cardio....I noticed that on my 1 rest day a week it was 3K per day. Which I attribute to maybe a slightly elevated met rate from 6 days of working out 1-2 times a day.

Note:
Recap and action taken:
- In brief I was eating clean, very low carb (almost keto) Sun-Thur about 1700-1800 cal a day. And fri-sat I would eat carbs and up cals to 2500/day.
-Exercise was weights 3X and cardio 6X per week.

I have changed my diet: Upped cals to 2000. With a 45/35/30 macro split everyday (re-intro carbs to my week). And also increased exercise slightly to 3500-4000 about 5 days a week. With 2 4500cal burn days.

Maybe with upping my cals,.....allowing carbs in everyday instead of this weekend only thing,.....I might get something happening again.

I still want the large deficit....but again, hopefully by eating more and allowing carbs I will be properly fueled, my body will adjust....and the weight will start coming off again.

Thx again everybody! You've been great!
 
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