Ok guys, I need some knowledgeable advice here. On July 25, I was dead lifting. I was also in a hurry, which was my mistake. Somewhere in one of my lifts, I had bad form. Maybe I locked out for too long or rounded my back, I dunno, but I have had lower back pain since then. The pain was pretty bad for the first couple weeks, until I stopped lifting all together on August 14th. Since then, my back has slowly been feeling better, but there's a nagging soreness that's hanging around and if I still do much, the pressure will come back. I've tweaked my back dead lifting before, but the pain has never lasted this long, and it's starting to drive me nuts. The soreness really kicks in when I'm at work sitting in my chair for extended periods of time. Probably due to a lack of lumbar support in the chair and the pre-existing injury. I don't know if that's what's keeping me from fully recovering or not, but it's the only thing I've really noticed anymore. I could bring in a pillow or something to put back there, but does anyone think that's really the problem, or could it simply be the fact that I'm older now(30) and am just taking longer to recover? I really want to get back into the gym, but not being able to dead lift, or do anything that involves picking the barbell up off the floor(cleans, rows, or even squats) is going to drive me insane. I'm huge on barbell work and this takes away 75% of my routine.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Back Pain from Deads.
- Thread starter JustinRVA
- Start date
Age is not the factor, I hurt my back earlier this year and have 10 years on you so I think it will be the nature of the damage caused. I was barely able to walk and the process of driving to work and back was excruciating so it was bad but yours is evidently different and will need identification first and foremost.
My normal thing is stretch, mobilise and mild challenge to get back to condition, but if there is an injury that is going to require more than this you will need to find before you can treat it. The back is really complex and so much can go wrong that you need to be sure you are treating the correct issue.
There is a guy on her Jrahien who is really good on that stuff, well read up on injury and therapy and cautious enough to get people recovering safely. He will likely need as much detail as you can give, exact location of the pain, type of sensation, things that ease and aggravate, previous injuries etc. The more detail you can give the better, even your height could be a factor to consider.
You have been suffering from this for a while now. If he doesn't see this thread and respond, usually does, it could be worth sending him a PM.
My normal thing is stretch, mobilise and mild challenge to get back to condition, but if there is an injury that is going to require more than this you will need to find before you can treat it. The back is really complex and so much can go wrong that you need to be sure you are treating the correct issue.
There is a guy on her Jrahien who is really good on that stuff, well read up on injury and therapy and cautious enough to get people recovering safely. He will likely need as much detail as you can give, exact location of the pain, type of sensation, things that ease and aggravate, previous injuries etc. The more detail you can give the better, even your height could be a factor to consider.
You have been suffering from this for a while now. If he doesn't see this thread and respond, usually does, it could be worth sending him a PM.
Thanks. I knew I could count on your for a good answer.
The pain was sharp, in the middle of the bottom of my back. That since has subsided, with the exception of a bit of pain when I bend far over(rounding my back) and a bit of pressure. What I'm having now seems to be soreness to the sides of my back, perhaps from all of the "over correcting" bending I have been doing to avoid the middle of my back hurting for the last month. Not to mention, my back sinks into my chair at work, which doesn't bother me normally, but it's exploiting what's going on now and make it more sore. I'm shifting around a lot to try to ease the soreness and getting up and walking around constantly.
The pain was sharp, in the middle of the bottom of my back. That since has subsided, with the exception of a bit of pain when I bend far over(rounding my back) and a bit of pressure. What I'm having now seems to be soreness to the sides of my back, perhaps from all of the "over correcting" bending I have been doing to avoid the middle of my back hurting for the last month. Not to mention, my back sinks into my chair at work, which doesn't bother me normally, but it's exploiting what's going on now and make it more sore. I'm shifting around a lot to try to ease the soreness and getting up and walking around constantly.
Center of the back is a concern if it is dead centre as that could be spinal and that is a real worry. If it has eased away from there that makes it less likely to be spinal but while there is a chance this has to be treated with extreme caution.
If it was to sides of centre, as mine was, that is more likely the erector spinae muscles which on people who train frequently is easy to fix, if a bit annoying.
There are a couple of things I can possibly suggest but I would definately ask Jrahien and if he disagrees with me go with his advice 100%.
Support, I would say ideally the neophrene sport style as they keep the heat in and that helps as much as anything else. If this is right into the hip area you may want to have a back support and hip support too, these are not easy to put on with a sore back as they are basically neophrene cycling shorts, but they do help.
If sitting is an issue use cushions, towels anything to get you into a position that allows your body to recover.
If there is a serious chance that this is spinal and it doesn't get better with sensible rest, you will need direct help. A good chiropractor etc. should be able to source the issue and fix it in a few sessions unless it is extreme.
Backs are tricky, spine is scary. If it's just back you'll be happy, if it's the spine you will be looking at bare minimum of a year of being careful. Good news is you are fit and young enough to bounce back from this as long as you use the intelligence and patience that you have to get this far.
If it was to sides of centre, as mine was, that is more likely the erector spinae muscles which on people who train frequently is easy to fix, if a bit annoying.
There are a couple of things I can possibly suggest but I would definately ask Jrahien and if he disagrees with me go with his advice 100%.
Support, I would say ideally the neophrene sport style as they keep the heat in and that helps as much as anything else. If this is right into the hip area you may want to have a back support and hip support too, these are not easy to put on with a sore back as they are basically neophrene cycling shorts, but they do help.
If sitting is an issue use cushions, towels anything to get you into a position that allows your body to recover.
If there is a serious chance that this is spinal and it doesn't get better with sensible rest, you will need direct help. A good chiropractor etc. should be able to source the issue and fix it in a few sessions unless it is extreme.
Backs are tricky, spine is scary. If it's just back you'll be happy, if it's the spine you will be looking at bare minimum of a year of being careful. Good news is you are fit and young enough to bounce back from this as long as you use the intelligence and patience that you have to get this far.
Have you thought about going to a chiropractor to get an adjustment? I know there are very mixed feelings about them, but when I herniated a disc in my lower back, that was the only relief I could get! Just make sure you find a reputable one, and I certainly wouldn't let him adjust without an xray to see what is going on in there! I also find that heat helps when I have a 'flare up'.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Have you thought about going to a chiropractor to get an adjustment? I know there are very mixed feelings about them, but when I herniated a disc in my lower back, that was the only relief I could get! Just make sure you find a reputable one, and I certainly wouldn't let him adjust without an xray to see what is going on in there! I also find that heat helps when I have a 'flare up'.
Good luck!
Before you initiate any treatment from this board or otherwise, you should be evaluated by a physician. Best case scenario, you have a severe muscle sprain. At worst, a ligamentous injury, herniated disc, spinous process fracture and or vertebral body fracture. You will likely need an MRI of your thoracic and lumbar spine. Any less and you risk permanent disability and chronic back pain.
Once you have rehabilitated and are cleared to return to working out, you should have your exercise form and program checked by a certified fitness instructor to prevent future injuries.
Before you initiate any treatment from this board or otherwise, you should be evaluated by a physician. Best case scenario, you have a severe muscle sprain. At worst, a ligamentous injury, herniated disc, spinous process fracture and or vertebral body fracture. You will likely need an MRI of your thoracic and lumbar spine. Any less and you risk permanent disability and chronic back pain.
Once you have rehabilitated and are cleared to return to working out, you should have your exercise form and program checked by a certified fitness instructor to prevent future injuries.
Fortunately Justin is used to rehab style training on occasion so will be good here.
I tend to avoid physicians because most of them I have encountered are overpaid, over-qualified, under intelligent and lazy. If you do get a good one however they are brilliant and I have been fortunate enough to encounter a few.
One example of my lack of trust was from dislocating a shoulder about 4 years ago. Went to A&E and minor injuries 4 times not one of them identified the issue, the reason I know is the pain of it returning into place woke me up. The excuse, 'it's hard to identify this on muscular people' how the heck they would be able to treat really well built people I don't know, considering these were apparently 'specailists'.
Good doctors are great but when finding one to source issues that you are having I would suggest getting local recomendation, because a bad one is useless.
This is based on personal experience only, and I hope many here disagree because it will mean that there are a good number of doctors who can do more than prescribe, pain relief, antibiotics or methadone, which covers many in the UK. Being someone who deals with my own pain, treating it as a warning that I am being stupid, and never having been a drug addict this only leaves one thing for them to do for my treatments.
Thanks for the advice everybody.
Something strange happened the other day, though. I have been off of work since Thursday, and my family took a trip to Baltimore on Friday, which is a 2&1/2 hour drive from where I live, if you're lucky. It took us about 6 hours round trip. Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that I took a pillow with me to prop behind my back for the drive up and back for support so I wouldn't round out into the seat. Since the drive back Friday night, my back has felt 10x better. I can't explain why. The pain that was there is virtually gone. I had the pressure of the pillow on my back for the 3 hours up and the 3 hours back and it made a world of difference. I don't know if that was coincidence or just a good idea. The part that boggled me was that we spent a good 6 hours walking around the city, so I was vertical all day and that didn't have a negative effect on me. I'm returning to the gym tomorrow, but I'm starting a cut, so I'll be doing heavy chest and cardio for an hour, and I'm sure I won't be deadlifting this week or next, but we'll see how it reacts to what I do anyway.
Something strange happened the other day, though. I have been off of work since Thursday, and my family took a trip to Baltimore on Friday, which is a 2&1/2 hour drive from where I live, if you're lucky. It took us about 6 hours round trip. Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that I took a pillow with me to prop behind my back for the drive up and back for support so I wouldn't round out into the seat. Since the drive back Friday night, my back has felt 10x better. I can't explain why. The pain that was there is virtually gone. I had the pressure of the pillow on my back for the 3 hours up and the 3 hours back and it made a world of difference. I don't know if that was coincidence or just a good idea. The part that boggled me was that we spent a good 6 hours walking around the city, so I was vertical all day and that didn't have a negative effect on me. I'm returning to the gym tomorrow, but I'm starting a cut, so I'll be doing heavy chest and cardio for an hour, and I'm sure I won't be deadlifting this week or next, but we'll see how it reacts to what I do anyway.
Fortunately Justin is used to rehab style training on occasion so will be good here.
I tend to avoid physicians because most of them I have encountered are overpaid, over-qualified, under intelligent and lazy. If you do get a good one however they are brilliant and I have been fortunate enough to encounter a few.
One example of my lack of trust was from dislocating a shoulder about 4 years ago. Went to A&E and minor injuries 4 times not one of them identified the issue, the reason I know is the pain of it returning into place woke me up. The excuse, 'it's hard to identify this on muscular people' how the heck they would be able to treat really well built people I don't know, considering these were apparently 'specailists'.
Good doctors are great but when finding one to source issues that you are having I would suggest getting local recomendation, because a bad one is useless.
This is based on personal experience only, and I hope many here disagree because it will mean that there are a good number of doctors who can do more than prescribe, pain relief, antibiotics or methadone, which covers many in the UK. Being someone who deals with my own pain, treating it as a warning that I am being stupid, and never having been a drug addict this only leaves one thing for them to do for my treatments.
I'm pretty much the same way with doctors. The same doctor that treated me as a child misdiagnosed my nephew when he was small with strep, which he did not have, and gave him medicine that did not work for what he actually had and his kidneys shut down on Christmas day and he spent the next 2 weeks in the hospital. That's not the only reason I don't like them, but it's one of the few. I will go if I have to, but more often than not, I know my limits.
Everyone has a token anecdote of a bad mechanic, does that mean we all should put our lives in our hands and fix our own timing belts?
If you're smart enough to post here, you're smart enough to pick a physician with a good reputation.
For those that like to prescribe medical advice on the internet without a license, I hope you pick an attorney with a good reputation to defend you against a civil lawsuit for permanent disability. A bad one will not help you keep the shirt on your back.
If you still insist, please go to this link with all your online questions.
If you're smart enough to post here, you're smart enough to pick a physician with a good reputation.
For those that like to prescribe medical advice on the internet without a license, I hope you pick an attorney with a good reputation to defend you against a civil lawsuit for permanent disability. A bad one will not help you keep the shirt on your back.
If you still insist, please go to this link with all your online questions.
If I'm working on my own car, I'm going to ask a fellow grease head for advice first over a technician who sits behind a desk with no hands on experience. When was the last time you ever talked to a doctor who looked like he had ever even walked into a weight room? My guess is never. I would like to think that most people, including myself, are smart enough to gauge pain and what will be ok and what you need to go to the doctor for. My back is about 95% at this point thanks to time and the advice of others, so maybe I should sue you for trying to deter me from seeking their help?
P.s. - "Bro science" is thinking that eating a steak before you go to sleep at night is going to make your muscles grow faster, not asking others for advice on a injury anybody could sustain, and probably has at some point, while doing the same kind of lift.
Thanks though.
P.s. - "Bro science" is thinking that eating a steak before you go to sleep at night is going to make your muscles grow faster, not asking others for advice on a injury anybody could sustain, and probably has at some point, while doing the same kind of lift.
Thanks though.
TopKnife
As I said a good doctor is brilliant and worthwhile person to have on side. In the UK you are given access to a GP surgery and rarely assigned an actual GP unless in very affluent areas. This means it's very pot luck if you get someone competent. Not a matter of smart enough to pick a good physician, more rich enough to live somewhere expensive where you get a regular GP.
I am always careful not to give full medical advice, personal experience, some guidance and open acknowledgement that none of what I say may be useful is my style. The closest I got to medical advice was find a doctor by recommendation or use a chiropractor, someone who will specialise in sorting out backs.
Using the mechanic anecdote is a good comparison, many of them can be incompetent too and yes I have encountered a few dangerously so. Strangely enough when you complain about one of them something seems to get done, when I reported a GP for dangerous negligence, they were simply moved to a different surgery. It appears they are well protected over here, hopefully you have this a lot better in the US.
If you think I am simply down on the profession consider the GP I formally complained about was sat in a cosy office with time slots and breaks, very low pressure, still too incompetent to either pull up patient notes on a computer of have them brought in paper form, yet prescribed potentially dangerous medication that could have killed my wife despite her telling him her medical history. When I was into dangerous sports we generally had on site medics and every one of us had signed a waiver to allow them to make on the spot decisions without fear of being sued, because we knew they would often be dealing with emergencies. They got things wrong on occasion, generally under extreme pressure dealing with several cases at once or someone literally about to die or reviving someone who has died, seeing that in real life is terrifying. When one of them sent me from unconscious into a coma with a simple error he apologised when he saw me next and I was totally OK with it. I understood what he'd done, why and that he and others had done everything to make me stable while repairing major damage I had caused myself. With excellence like that under the most extreme conditions even after an error I am not willing to accept lazy incompetence with lives on the line in the safest environment.
I am guessing medicine is your profession or at least passion based on the name, I do reserve the right to be wrong of course. If I am right it would be interesting to know if you have ever reported a colleague for acting dangerously or at least pulled them on it. In my profession where lives are very rarely on the line we often correct mistakes from others and makes sure they know what they have done. Extreme cases do result in disciplinary and failing to correct others is frowned upon severely, as is refusing to accept responsibility for an error or trying to hide from it. Maybe this is why I am so unforgiving of low quality medical staff.
I hope you stick around and are as equally passionate about fitness as the rest of us. Much as anything else I appreciate being challenged and corrected, as someone who loves learning I know how much can be gained by being corrected.
Not heard the term bro science, but if it is what I expect, basically bad advice handed around as fact, I have encountered a lot of it and most is garbage. The fitness industry is full of it so yes I agree totally in never taking anyone's word for it, including mine of course. There is also the joy of new research which makes liars of the most well-read. I studied nutrition, kinesiology, anatomy, various styles of training etc. for a number of years, but all of this was a number of years ago meaning only a few weeks ago I was proven blatantly wrong by stating something we knew for sure 10 or 15 years ago and have been found out to be way off since. The single most dangerously stupid thing I can think of anyone, including a doctor, doing is assuming they are always right.
As I said a good doctor is brilliant and worthwhile person to have on side. In the UK you are given access to a GP surgery and rarely assigned an actual GP unless in very affluent areas. This means it's very pot luck if you get someone competent. Not a matter of smart enough to pick a good physician, more rich enough to live somewhere expensive where you get a regular GP.
I am always careful not to give full medical advice, personal experience, some guidance and open acknowledgement that none of what I say may be useful is my style. The closest I got to medical advice was find a doctor by recommendation or use a chiropractor, someone who will specialise in sorting out backs.
Using the mechanic anecdote is a good comparison, many of them can be incompetent too and yes I have encountered a few dangerously so. Strangely enough when you complain about one of them something seems to get done, when I reported a GP for dangerous negligence, they were simply moved to a different surgery. It appears they are well protected over here, hopefully you have this a lot better in the US.
If you think I am simply down on the profession consider the GP I formally complained about was sat in a cosy office with time slots and breaks, very low pressure, still too incompetent to either pull up patient notes on a computer of have them brought in paper form, yet prescribed potentially dangerous medication that could have killed my wife despite her telling him her medical history. When I was into dangerous sports we generally had on site medics and every one of us had signed a waiver to allow them to make on the spot decisions without fear of being sued, because we knew they would often be dealing with emergencies. They got things wrong on occasion, generally under extreme pressure dealing with several cases at once or someone literally about to die or reviving someone who has died, seeing that in real life is terrifying. When one of them sent me from unconscious into a coma with a simple error he apologised when he saw me next and I was totally OK with it. I understood what he'd done, why and that he and others had done everything to make me stable while repairing major damage I had caused myself. With excellence like that under the most extreme conditions even after an error I am not willing to accept lazy incompetence with lives on the line in the safest environment.
I am guessing medicine is your profession or at least passion based on the name, I do reserve the right to be wrong of course. If I am right it would be interesting to know if you have ever reported a colleague for acting dangerously or at least pulled them on it. In my profession where lives are very rarely on the line we often correct mistakes from others and makes sure they know what they have done. Extreme cases do result in disciplinary and failing to correct others is frowned upon severely, as is refusing to accept responsibility for an error or trying to hide from it. Maybe this is why I am so unforgiving of low quality medical staff.
I hope you stick around and are as equally passionate about fitness as the rest of us. Much as anything else I appreciate being challenged and corrected, as someone who loves learning I know how much can be gained by being corrected.
Not heard the term bro science, but if it is what I expect, basically bad advice handed around as fact, I have encountered a lot of it and most is garbage. The fitness industry is full of it so yes I agree totally in never taking anyone's word for it, including mine of course. There is also the joy of new research which makes liars of the most well-read. I studied nutrition, kinesiology, anatomy, various styles of training etc. for a number of years, but all of this was a number of years ago meaning only a few weeks ago I was proven blatantly wrong by stating something we knew for sure 10 or 15 years ago and have been found out to be way off since. The single most dangerously stupid thing I can think of anyone, including a doctor, doing is assuming they are always right.
To the OP:
I'm glad you feel better, so please don't take offense. Most people need a little tough love before they can make the safest decision. A seemingly innocuous back injury could lead to permanent nerve damage and disability so it is great that you dodged a bullet.
I meant the Broscience link to lighten the mood of the discussion as I truly enjoy getting advice from lifting veterans and most of it works. If you haven't clicked on it, watch the videos if you don't mind raunchy humor.
To CZOM:
I agree with you. The best professionals recognize that learning is a continuing process and it is great when you can surround yourself with people and resources that keep you up to date on the literature which is vast, challenging, and time consuming. Fortunately in the US, we have maintenance of board certification requirements that expect continuing education at meetings and with education materials that bring out the best in evidenced based guidelines and supporting literature.
In the UK, you can't ask your GP for a referral to a respected sports physician after a significant injury?
In the US, I would have made sure the OP was setup to see our best sports specialist ASAP and initiated his workup. Best case scenario, like I said, a sprain, studies are negative and you can go home and ice your back while taking Ibuprofen followed by gradual rehabilitation. No blind guess work with a good physician: let's get your pain controlled, identify the injury and initiate the correct treatment promptly. Afterwards, if you want to temper your treatment strategy with the advice of lifting veterans, you will have an even better probability of success.
After all, we all want you to get back to a safe and successful routine as soon as it is safe to do so. That's why you are getting free professional advice. That's why I love this board.
I'm glad you feel better, so please don't take offense. Most people need a little tough love before they can make the safest decision. A seemingly innocuous back injury could lead to permanent nerve damage and disability so it is great that you dodged a bullet.
I meant the Broscience link to lighten the mood of the discussion as I truly enjoy getting advice from lifting veterans and most of it works. If you haven't clicked on it, watch the videos if you don't mind raunchy humor.
To CZOM:
I agree with you. The best professionals recognize that learning is a continuing process and it is great when you can surround yourself with people and resources that keep you up to date on the literature which is vast, challenging, and time consuming. Fortunately in the US, we have maintenance of board certification requirements that expect continuing education at meetings and with education materials that bring out the best in evidenced based guidelines and supporting literature.
In the UK, you can't ask your GP for a referral to a respected sports physician after a significant injury?
In the US, I would have made sure the OP was setup to see our best sports specialist ASAP and initiated his workup. Best case scenario, like I said, a sprain, studies are negative and you can go home and ice your back while taking Ibuprofen followed by gradual rehabilitation. No blind guess work with a good physician: let's get your pain controlled, identify the injury and initiate the correct treatment promptly. Afterwards, if you want to temper your treatment strategy with the advice of lifting veterans, you will have an even better probability of success.
After all, we all want you to get back to a safe and successful routine as soon as it is safe to do so. That's why you are getting free professional advice. That's why I love this board.
In the UK you can ask for referral by all means. If the GP wants to give you a referral is another matter. If you get one it could be weeks or months before you see who you need and getting there without a GP can take double the time, by which time the situation is more severe.
They get plenty of training days so you expect continuous learning and progression. I also know that many don't attend in order to finish paperwork that is supposed to be done outside of these times. As I said I have encountered a lot of really good medical professionals and literally owe my life to some of them, but there is quite a culture of not being prepared to have the first diagnosis prove wrong, something I don't really understand.
An example was the major seizure that led to my being diagnosed epileptic. Paramedics arrived and armed with my age, and description of my symptoms were ready for a heart issue, statistically the smartest thing to do, but there was no plan B at all. This was to such an extent that after the ECG showed my heart wasn't only not in danger but very strong they were totally lost. I was then taken to a hospital where I spent aroung 11 hours to be told not sure what happened we'll post you details of when to come in for tests, with no treatment at all and tests that I could have done at home, basic blood pressure and pulse style.
When I was finally diagnosed and told the neurologist the details of the seizure he said it was a longer session of fitting than most would have survived. My fitness saved my life by enabling me to keep going that long without dying, the cost was aching to the point I felt as if I had been beaten up with baseball bats for over a week and the palour of a zombie for a bit longer.
Again I think part of the lack of tolerance comes from my own working environment where you need to have plans a to c in mind and be forming more if these fail, and if you don't know you find someone who does, shamefully often using google.
No country will have health care totally perfect, I accept this but being human I remember the negative more clearly than the positive. I also know that if our minds weren't wired to do just that we would have become a casualty of evolution.
They get plenty of training days so you expect continuous learning and progression. I also know that many don't attend in order to finish paperwork that is supposed to be done outside of these times. As I said I have encountered a lot of really good medical professionals and literally owe my life to some of them, but there is quite a culture of not being prepared to have the first diagnosis prove wrong, something I don't really understand.
An example was the major seizure that led to my being diagnosed epileptic. Paramedics arrived and armed with my age, and description of my symptoms were ready for a heart issue, statistically the smartest thing to do, but there was no plan B at all. This was to such an extent that after the ECG showed my heart wasn't only not in danger but very strong they were totally lost. I was then taken to a hospital where I spent aroung 11 hours to be told not sure what happened we'll post you details of when to come in for tests, with no treatment at all and tests that I could have done at home, basic blood pressure and pulse style.
When I was finally diagnosed and told the neurologist the details of the seizure he said it was a longer session of fitting than most would have survived. My fitness saved my life by enabling me to keep going that long without dying, the cost was aching to the point I felt as if I had been beaten up with baseball bats for over a week and the palour of a zombie for a bit longer.
Again I think part of the lack of tolerance comes from my own working environment where you need to have plans a to c in mind and be forming more if these fail, and if you don't know you find someone who does, shamefully often using google.
No country will have health care totally perfect, I accept this but being human I remember the negative more clearly than the positive. I also know that if our minds weren't wired to do just that we would have become a casualty of evolution.
The dead lift uses your hips and knee joints to lift the weight off of the floor. It is important that the load is spread between your hips and knees equally and that these joints move at roughly the same speed. If you increase your legs quicker than your waist, you will place your returning in a automatically disadvantageous position which improves your risk of struggling returning damage.