Sport Assistance with training diet

Sport Fitness
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Dutes

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Hi guys, I've run into a road block in my quest for state rowing selection (check out my journal log at http://training.fitness.com/journal/journey-centre-four-rower-s-journal-35740.html) in that I'm having real problems with my diet.

I am 18 years old, male, 181cm, 68.7kg
I'm training 12-15 times a week, 4 in the boat, 3 in the gym, 2 ergos, 3 Core Strength and when I get off my lazy ass I'll also be looking to do a couple of long rides a week.

Using the BMR formula my daily maintenance (if I did nothing) is 1796.8. On a day I row I'll burn probably a further 1700-1800 calories. That gives me a daily maintenance of around 3500-3600 calories a day when I row, and around 2800 on days I don't.

The trouble I'm having (aside from time restrictions affecting my eating which are frustrating) is that I'm really not sure about what I should be eating. I know there are plenty of stickies around the forum and I have read them, including LV's Grocery list.

However, I'm still unsure about my (planned) diet. Looking around I see I should be having roughly 30% carbs, 30% fats, 30% Protein with an extra 10% of my choice. As I have a weight restriction I favour that extra 10% to go to protein. As protein provides 4cals/gram, that means i require 350g of protein a DAY when i row... that seems like a lot...

ATM my plan (when I can actually follow it) looks like this

Breakfast: 6 weetbix/w honey and low fat milk
+ 1 of - 2 slices wholemeal bread w/peanut butter or sardines or 4-egg omelet with cheese and tomato

Snack 1: Canned Tuna on wholemeal bread

Lunch: 1 Sandwich w/Cheese, lean ham/turkey, lettuce, tomato

Snack 2: Canned Tuna on wholemeal bread

Dinner: Chicken or Beef Stir-Fry with noodles

The trouble is I know for sure I'm not getting 350g of protein out of that. I could up the meal sizes but I do not want to exceed my maintenance, or if I do then only by 200-300 calories, to slowly gain additional muscle mass. This is because I am a lightweight rower. My current weight is 68.7kg. Max weight is 72.5kg, crew average is 70kg. I do NOT want to exceed 70kg.

I'd also like to vary my meals a bit more before Tuna becomes very tiresome.

Suggestions, information and advice is very, very greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sam
 
General guidelines are for the general public. You are not the general public. Thus, a zone-like diet is not for you. Or pretty well any athlete. It's extremely unlikely you'll see any benefit from eating more than 1.5g protein per lb bodyweight. This means 225g.

Check out The Carb Cycling Codex. Also, I wouldn't be eating all that tuna (one word: mercury). You can get frozen Tilapia, Sole or similar for roughly the same price per g protein. It's also much, much tastier with a little culinary knowhow.

Try drinking half a quart of skim milk with each of your meals. That's 90g protein right there, and will probably help you keep your calories up as well, with very little additional effort (unless you're some sort of freak who doesn't like milk).
 
Thanks a lot Focus!

Clarifying the protein question was a big help, and that link the Carb-Cycling page is interesting.

The suggestion about the milk is really good, although that does mean I'd be going through 2.5L of milk a day :speechless:

Has anyone here tried this Carb-Cycling idea? It sounds great, but I'm skeptical, it would mean me eating a LOT of fats, nearly as many calories from fats as carbs and protein combined! As someone who wants to be lean, lean, lean to stay under the weight requirement eating that much in fats would seem counterproductive?
 
Dutes said:
Has anyone here tried this Carb-Cycling idea? It sounds great, but I'm skeptical, it would mean me eating a LOT of fats, nearly as many calories from fats as carbs and protein combined! As someone who wants to be lean, lean, lean to stay under the weight requirement eating that much in fats would seem counterproductive?
Click to expand...

A number of folks, including myself. Though I only began a while ago, I'm liking it quite well. As for the rest, they've all had excellent results, but I'll let them chime in for themselves.

I see you're still clinging to some pop culture nonsense. Fats don't make you fat. If anything, getting enough healthy fats (mono, poly and saturated - all are necessary, and they are best kept balanced), will help you shed excess body fat in addition to keeping you lean and healthy. There's a reason some of them are called essential fatty acids. The whole "fat is bad!!1!" thing is a retarded fad based on a single study of very questionable method (see: scientific rigor roughly equivalent to unqualified guesswork). There are many, many more, quality studies that show that each type of fat is vital in its own way to optimal human functioning, and is felt (in terms of performance and health detriment) in its absence.

It only makes sense that if you are allotted a certain amount of protein, and a certain amount of carbohydrate, the rest has to come from somewhere. If you do decide to try it out, and I'm not necessarily saying that you should, do as he says, load up on fish oil and skip the flax (it's poison at worst and a terrible source of EPA/DHA at best) and do almonds instead, in addition to getting saturated fats from fatty cuts of meat and such (which btw, are generally delicious :D ).

I referred you to the link, though, to give you a bit of an idea of how to distribute your calories and macros. Basically, as Thibs says, "eat as you need it". :)
 
one thing I have heard about carb cycling, and it made a big impact on my opinion forming about it, is that the carb cycling is tough on sleep patterns. Anything that starts effecting sleep is not the best thing for consistency in performance.

FF
 
I wouldn't recommend carb cycling for your type of training cause it simply will make your body work harder for replenishing your lost energy. I would rather give you a diet that makes your replenishment more straightforward, a diet that will do it faster and easier. Remember, you are not a bodybuilder and you are not a marathon or triathlete either. Your sport is specific and strenuous, a sport that requires maximum input for a longer period of time,compared to bodybuilders, and a shorter period compared to triathletes, so, in your case, it's a big no no! Eating nuts is a very good solution to increase your total calorie intake, and having protein shakes as well is also not a bad idea. Top olympic triathletes are working really hard for a long period of time, finishing in around 1 hour 50 min; how long is your event? Take a look at the following:
 
Thanks for the input guys.

Fit4Life - I know heavyweight rowers consume a huge portion of their calories from carbohydrates but my coach (a former Aus lightweight, an olympic coach and a qualified nutritionist) advised me to go easy on foods like past, white bread etc. that are high in carbs. Prob just refering to simple carbohydrates? It's all very complicated and have now spoken to 3 nutritionists (including my coach) and all have given different, largely contradictive advice.

Consistent points:
Keep protein intake consistent at around 1.5g/lb of weight
Nuts are good
Protein Shakes are highly recommended

Looking at that I'm tempted to go with shakes, get my protein right and then just make up the rest of the calories that I need each day from whatever while trying to eat good foods.

Of some considerable concern is that today when I jumped on the scales my weight read 65.5kg representing a massive drop of 2.2kg in a week, different scales though so maybe innacurate. Still alarming and concerning, and considering my consistently well-below-required calorie intake, not altogether unbelievable.
Worrying though...
 
Dutes said:
Thanks for the input guys.

Fit4Life - I know heavyweight rowers consume a huge portion of their calories from carbohydrates but my coach (a former Aus lightweight, an olympic coach and a qualified nutritionist) advised me to go easy on foods like past, white bread etc. that are high in carbs. Prob just refering to simple carbohydrates? It's all very complicated and have now spoken to 3 nutritionists (including my coach) and all have given different, largely contradictive advice.

Consistent points:
Keep protein intake consistent at around 1.5g/lb of weight
Nuts are good
Protein Shakes are highly recommended

Looking at that I'm tempted to go with shakes, get my protein right and then just make up the rest of the calories that I need each day from whatever while trying to eat good foods.

Of some considerable concern is that today when I jumped on the scales my weight read 65.5kg representing a massive drop of 2.2kg in a week, different scales though so maybe innacurate. Still alarming and concerning, and considering my consistently well-below-required calorie intake, not altogether unbelievable.
Worrying though...
Click to expand...

Did you tell him that you are losing weight the same way an aeroplane loses height when run out of fuel? Listen to the sirens my friend and take some initiative. I told you before, look at the evidence to avoid future crimes. You are constantly losing weight. Reason: NOT ENOUGH CALORIES!!! You are going to be kicking yourself later on.

Now, if the scale is right, you need to consume big calories and fast. Your coach is partially right with the carbs. An elite athlete is not a normal person though. You can't recommend general advice to elite athletes. The debate about simple and complex carbohydrates will go on for ever. The truth is that statistics do nothing for the individual, do nothing for you.

The DRA at the back of a multivitamin plastic bottle has nothing to do with you. The amount of stress your body goes through everyday through training is 3x the stress of a normal person. That's why they suggest more protein, that's why they suggest more vitamins and minerals, that's why they suggest MORE CARBS. The recommended daily calorie intake for the general public is 2400 kcal (men) and you can't reach that sometimes. And that's for people that don't even care to exercise.

Include protein shakes, include nuts with your normal diet and if you still are in a deficit, go for cheesecakes, bisquits, ice cream, chocolate, snicker bars, anything really. It doesn't matter, you have quality in your diet, you need to add quantity as well and it's difficult with a clean diet. Don't be afraid of using simple carbs, your body NEEDS simple carbs soon after training. Maybe this one will help you understand the importance of total calories, and maybe inspire you a bit as well.

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Food for fuel: Olympian Phelps' unusual diet

Make it easy for yourself and again, if you see that you are gaining weight (which is something you need at the moment anyway) simply cut down.
EAT MATE, EAATTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thanks for the advice fit4life.

Took it to heart and just ate.

Up and over 3000 (closer to 3500) each day for the last 3 and trying to really plan a specific eating plan to get me to my targets each day.
 
The truth is out there my friend, a puzzle though of a thousand pieces scattered in mouths and thoughts of different people, waiting for you to take them one by one, put them in a little bag, make a cup of coffee and sit down and fit them together. It seems hard at first but will be enjoyable when you start understanding which piece goes where. There are also pieces of info that don't belong to your puzzle, even if people tell you that they do, not because they want to lie to you, but because they trully believe that they fit, when they actually don't. It's your job to recognize them and discard them.

Arm yourself with nutrition knowledge, identify your body's needs through trial and error and finish your puzzle. It's a different one, unique for each and every one of us. They just have some similar patterns and shapes.
 
Recall I didn't say that you should carb cycle necessarily, just pointing out that it's best you are heavy on carbs around workouts. Rest of the time, load up on fats. Protein always, obviously.

However, I still think you might benefit. Extrapolate what fit and ff are saying, you get: "eat as much as you need!" (P.S. I've never heard of anyone having trouble sleeping as the result of carb cycling. Not sure the cycling was in fact the cause. If anything I find it knocks me out pretty good.) As before, the extra cals in cycling come from fats, which will do you good when you're not blazing. When you are, just stuff yourself with carbs. It's not that complicated a system, and I can't think of any physiological reason why it'd be an issue. What I would do in your case is just throw away the caloric numbers and stuff yourself with the food choices appropriate to the timing.

But, as things stand, you are simply not eating enough. Nowhere near enough. Glad to hear you've reversed this trend over the last few days. Believe me, it's not hard to mow through 4, 5 or even 6k calories a day while carb cycling. You might find it feels good, too. But if you're ravenous in the evenings, just say, "**** it!" and eat a big ass bowl of brown rice or steel cut oats or quinoa or whatever floats your boat in addition to the rest. If you find yourself gaining too much fat weight, well, then, you can always tone it down a notch. :)

A lot of people don't get that not eating enough is more of a problem in many ways than eating "too much"!
 
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