Anyone else see Sicko?
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No smartass comments or off topic debates?
Also, I saw that you started an upbeat thread an on upcoming BBQ.
Are you feeling ok Tani?
I haven't seen that documentary but I did see one about Micheal Moore and how he exploited people who featured in one of his early films. He got the illiterate ones to sign a contract that exchanged their royalty payments for a ride in a Limo.
The problem with Moore is that he only gives one side of an arguement, apparently in his documentary Sicko he points to the British NHS as an example of a functioning 'free' health service. However he doesn't mention the thousands on waiting lists who need operations but have to wait until their status is upgraded to critical before they get seen. On the wonderful NHS my Grandad was left in the waiting room of A&E with a curtain drawn round him for about a week after a serious heart attack. I bet that doesn't happen in the US. People die in corridors of our dirty MRSA infected hospitals and people have no choice but to pay for this service as it's taken straight out of your wages.
I'm not saying that the NHS style system should be scrapped, it's good for people who have no choice but to use it but Micheal Moore likes to paint inaccurate pictures
The problem with Moore is that he only gives one side of an arguement, apparently in his documentary Sicko he points to the British NHS as an example of a functioning 'free' health service. However he doesn't mention the thousands on waiting lists who need operations but have to wait until their status is upgraded to critical before they get seen. On the wonderful NHS my Grandad was left in the waiting room of A&E with a curtain drawn round him for about a week after a serious heart attack. I bet that doesn't happen in the US. People die in corridors of our dirty MRSA infected hospitals and people have no choice but to pay for this service as it's taken straight out of your wages.
I'm not saying that the NHS style system should be scrapped, it's good for people who have no choice but to use it but Micheal Moore likes to paint inaccurate pictures
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MM is a fat bastard.
I would love to hear more about the health plans in other nations like yours, Canada and France. I'm happy you responded with that other viewpoint as I know how one sided Moore can be. He also failed to point out how miserable the taxes might be.
However, I still think that the fact that the American way of healthcare is lacking can't be ignored. We have insurance companies with big lawyers that try to scam out of paying for many things that should be covered. It's a scary thought that any one of us with insurance can be screwed out of payment due to fine print or clever legal jargon.
Sit on it, Potsy.
I think Michael Moore is too much one sided. He seems to ask questions trying to find answers to his questions rather than understanding the viewpoint from another standpoint.
I haven't seen the current one, but the gun control one was just horrible. He insists that fear built by the American media is the reason why America has such a high gun problem... which is a good argument had it been he explained it better and done more research on gun issues in other countries with respect to the population size similar to that of America.
I have health insurance... and I'm sure a lot of other people do as well. However, a vast majority of Americans don't... and on top of that a vast majority of Americans don't have car insurance, too. The overall problem with this? It costs too much and you barely use it once or twice. In countries where there's free health care, there's usually high taxes or some other trade off that probably isn't good.
I think Michael Moore should just go back home and eat some peanuts and take a chill pill before he has a massive stroke.
I haven't seen the current one, but the gun control one was just horrible. He insists that fear built by the American media is the reason why America has such a high gun problem... which is a good argument had it been he explained it better and done more research on gun issues in other countries with respect to the population size similar to that of America.
I have health insurance... and I'm sure a lot of other people do as well. However, a vast majority of Americans don't... and on top of that a vast majority of Americans don't have car insurance, too. The overall problem with this? It costs too much and you barely use it once or twice. In countries where there's free health care, there's usually high taxes or some other trade off that probably isn't good.
I think Michael Moore should just go back home and eat some peanuts and take a chill pill before he has a massive stroke.
I'm very glad to see others who feel the same way I do about MM.
I've seen some of his stuff (Bowling for Columbine, and the one about Michigan/GM - can't remember the name). I won't pay to see his one sided propaganda about 9/11, nor will I pay to see Sicko.
What I've seen of his was interesting, and he certainly presents it as gospel truth - he just tries sooo hard to slant everything so far left that it's ridiculous.
A friend of mine is an RN from Canada who has worked in American and Canadian hospitals. One thing she said she didn't agree with about Canada's healthcare system was how many people must wait and hope they don't die before they are treated. Her elderly father had to wait over a month for a desperately needed heart surgery and almost didn't make it b/c of it.
Our system certainly has many many flaws, and Lord knows the insurance companies make the tobacco companies look like angels sometimes. I just don't think the answer is in forcing those who earn a paycheck to pay for those who don't - thereby lowering the standards for everyone.
I've seen some of his stuff (Bowling for Columbine, and the one about Michigan/GM - can't remember the name). I won't pay to see his one sided propaganda about 9/11, nor will I pay to see Sicko.
What I've seen of his was interesting, and he certainly presents it as gospel truth - he just tries sooo hard to slant everything so far left that it's ridiculous.
A friend of mine is an RN from Canada who has worked in American and Canadian hospitals. One thing she said she didn't agree with about Canada's healthcare system was how many people must wait and hope they don't die before they are treated. Her elderly father had to wait over a month for a desperately needed heart surgery and almost didn't make it b/c of it.
Our system certainly has many many flaws, and Lord knows the insurance companies make the tobacco companies look like angels sometimes. I just don't think the answer is in forcing those who earn a paycheck to pay for those who don't - thereby lowering the standards for everyone.
Yeah Australia is good for health care well compared to America any way its like almost free over here.
I would definately watch his films, especially 9/11, as he puts together a good case. I just view them already knowing that the it's going to be bias and the thinks he shows might be misleading. It's like being on a jury and he's the prosecution, when you stop watching you can go and look into his claims and see what the defence might be.
Just out of interest, how much would your average 30 y/o male pay for medical insurance every year?
How long does one have to wait for surgery? In North America, Americans go to Canada to buy cheap drugs, while Canadians come to America for surgery and procedures. Cost aside, I don't think anyone could name a country that has a health care system of superior quality than America.
I have to agree there, I had a friend who had a brain tumour when I was a kid (about 6-7 y/o) and the whole school was raising money to send him to America to give him the treatment he needed, the tumor was so severe he only had a slight chance of survival and apparently the specialist equipment he needed was only available in America.
I still remember stealing money from my Dads wallet to put in the collection pot, I felt so guilty
If your dad wouldn't willingly give it to you to donate, then you did the right thing by taking it, imo.
There isn't an easy way to say what a 30yr old male would pay here. It all depends on which insurance company, what type of plan (there are a million variations of coverages), what his company pays for and the prices they negotiate with the insurance company.
For instance, my husbands job has 4 different plans to choose from, from different insurance companies. The one we have costs us (for the whole family, not just him) about $400 a month. It's higher than some of the other plans we had to choose from, but with awesome benefits. We don't pay a deductible at all, the copays are low, prescriptions are cheap, and most everything is covered 100%, and what isn't is covered 80%, with no lifetime maximum.
Over the years, we have had about 8 different ins plans. Never have we had a problem getting something covered (like a surgery that the company denied) or anything like that. As long as you get your referrals and prior authorizations (which the doctors offices take care of for you), then you're all good most of the time.
I'm sure there are horror stories of little kids with tumors that the evil ins companies denied their claims, but they are really the minority.
There isn't an easy way to say what a 30yr old male would pay here. It all depends on which insurance company, what type of plan (there are a million variations of coverages), what his company pays for and the prices they negotiate with the insurance company.
For instance, my husbands job has 4 different plans to choose from, from different insurance companies. The one we have costs us (for the whole family, not just him) about $400 a month. It's higher than some of the other plans we had to choose from, but with awesome benefits. We don't pay a deductible at all, the copays are low, prescriptions are cheap, and most everything is covered 100%, and what isn't is covered 80%, with no lifetime maximum.
Over the years, we have had about 8 different ins plans. Never have we had a problem getting something covered (like a surgery that the company denied) or anything like that. As long as you get your referrals and prior authorizations (which the doctors offices take care of for you), then you're all good most of the time.
I'm sure there are horror stories of little kids with tumors that the evil ins companies denied their claims, but they are really the minority.
Ok, that's a good ball park for me. In that example then I probably pay about twice what your whole family do every year in a forced contribution. On top of that my girlfriend also has to pay a lot even though she only works weekends (a lot of commission) and we never need any bl**dy treatment. And to top it off the service you recieve is so archaic it isn't worth having. I tried to make an appointment to see my doctor recently but appartently you can't pre-book appointments anymore, you have to ring after 8 and they tell you if they have a slot available that day. That means I have to take time off work and then ring up on the off-chance I might get seen.
I'd choose the American system any day
I feel lucky since my insurance company has been good to me when I had my accident. I was smart and got the large deductable with 100% covered after that. My medical bills added up to $150,000. I had to pay a few thousand and the rest was all taken care of (thank god). I have Golden Rule (United Healthcare) and paid $78 a month (it has since rose to $100 a month).
Deschain - Who do you have for your insurance?
After seeing that movie my friend was telling me that he has bluecross through his work and that a few months ago he sprained his ankle. The couple thousand it cost for whatever he needed his insurance company has thus far been refusing to pay. They said that for it to be covered it had to be an emergency and he had to go within 72 hours after it happened. He said he went 6 hours after it happened so he doesn't understand how that doesn't fall into the guidelines?
So I'm not sure how uncommon problems like these are.
Deschain - Who do you have for your insurance?
After seeing that movie my friend was telling me that he has bluecross through his work and that a few months ago he sprained his ankle. The couple thousand it cost for whatever he needed his insurance company has thus far been refusing to pay. They said that for it to be covered it had to be an emergency and he had to go within 72 hours after it happened. He said he went 6 hours after it happened so he doesn't understand how that doesn't fall into the guidelines?
So I'm not sure how uncommon problems like these are.
Good analogy!
Here in Canada it's free as well ...if you don't count our taxes. 14% (in my province) on anything you buy and about 30% personal income.
With any system there are pros and cons. The pro is that if someone suspects that they may have a problem, they'll be more inclined to have it checked out because it won't cost them anything (I've heard numerous stories like this where it turned out that the person had had a stroke - the symptoms can be very mild sometimes). On the other hand, everyone with a runny nose (exaggeration, but you get the point) can go on in to the emergency room which contributes to long wait times.