Weight-Loss Adding calories - what kind?

Weight-Loss

Tigpuppy

New member
I'm trying to increase my calorie intake a little bit because I am more active now and don't seem to be losing much any more. I'm already eating a balanced diet and getting the recommended amount of servings of all the major food groups.

So if I want to add a couple hundred calories a day, should I be adding in more protein, more carbs, or fruits and veggies? I'm wondering how best to spend those calories.

Thanks!
 
You mean nutrients. Calories are calories... there can be only one "kind" of calorie. But there are various nutrients, which provide our bodies calories.

That said, this question really can't be answered unless you provide more information about your diet and stats. How tall are you, what's your weight, how long have you been dieting, how many calories per day are you consuming, and what would be even better... how much protein, carbs and fats are you consuming?
 
I'm a 36 year old female, 5' 5", currently 154 lbs. I started at 185 on 3/1/2010 and began eating a lower calorie, healthier diet. Initially I was eating 1000 to 1200 calories a day because I was sedentary (desk job 8+ hrs a day, long commute, no exercise) and lost just over 20 lbs.

In the last month and a half I've added half an hour of cardio 3 days a week, and half an hour of weight training 2 nights a week. My weight loss has slowed way down and I've been stuck around 154 lbs for about 3 weeks now. I sometimes have a brief dip for a day maybe, but it goes back up to around 154. My calories are still averaging around 1200 a day and several people have suggested I increase them to get the weight coming off again. The calories I eat on average are around 54 to 60% carbs, 20 to 25% protein, and 20 to 25% fats. I don't keep track of grams per day of each or anything. I use an online tool provided by my insurance company to record all the foods I eat and how much and it tells me if I've covered all my major food groups sufficiently and what percent of my calories was spent on carbs, protiens, and fats.

I was thinking I would try to increase my calories to around 1400 a day and wondered if it mattered where I got the calories from - if protein or carbs were better or split it between the 2?
 
I'm doubtful that will work. You've been abusing your body as far as I'm concerned - the equivalent to taking a jackhammer to it in the middle of an earthquake.

It doesn't like that. It resists.

Hence your plateau.

I'd work your way up to maintenance systematically over a few weeks, stay there a week or so, then start dieting again using a sane deficit. One step in reverse in order to make many steps forward, if you will.
 
No offense, but I do NOT think I've been abusing my body over the last 4 and half months. The abuse was over the last decade when I let myself get so overweight and out of shape. Your little scolding wasn't exactly helpful. I know what my maitenance levels are and it was suggested I could safely go with a 20 to 30% reduction to lose about 2 lbs a week. And at 1200 calories a day it was consistantly WORKING FOR ME until I added in the exercise recently. I know that I need to now add more calories since I've gone from being almost completely sedentary to more physically active (at least for half an hour a day). I'm just not sure which multiplier I should be using for my current activity level (it's not exactly black and white like it was when I never moved) - but I'm sure not killing myself when I work out. I consider it light exercise for the most part. And for the majority of my day I am still sedentary. That shouldn't increase my daily calorie needs by all that much.

I simply wanted to know if it mattered where I got my additional calories from. Carbs, proteins, or fats? Does it even matter as long as I keep the percentages fairly close to what I have been maintaining for the last 4 and a half months? Or is there a reason to choose one over the others?
 
No offense, but I do NOT think I've been abusing my body over the last 4 and half months. The abuse was over the last decade when I let myself get so overweight and out of shape. Your little scolding wasn't exactly helpful. I know what my maitenance levels are and it was suggested I could safely go with a 20 to 30% reduction to lose about 2 lbs a week. And at 1200 calories a day it was consistantly WORKING FOR ME until I added in the exercise recently. I know that I need to now add more calories since I've gone from being almost completely sedentary to more physically active (at least for half an hour a day). I'm just not sure which multiplier I should be using for my current activity level (it's not exactly black and white like it was when I never moved) - but I'm sure not killing myself when I work out. I consider it light exercise for the most part. And for the majority of my day I am still sedentary. That shouldn't increase my daily calorie needs by all that much.

I simply wanted to know if it mattered where I got my additional calories from. Carbs, proteins, or fats? Does it even matter as long as I keep the percentages fairly close to what I have been maintaining for the last 4 and a half months? Or is there a reason to choose one over the others?

To scold you I'd have to care about what you do and do not do. And I don't. You are free to do whatever you want. I was merely stating my opinion in hopes that you wouldn't go down the path that almost every other dieter goes down.

That being the one where you abuse your body for a decade by leading a sedentary lifestyle paired with eating poorly and uncontrollably. Then bounce in another direction where you abuse your body by eating too little and adding exercise on top of that only to realize that doesn't work. Very long, that is.

This cycle can continue for some time, depending on the persistence of the dieter. But a very, very small percentage of people make it through this process, that I label the meat grinder.

As in 3%, give or take. Hence the horrendous success rates of all folks who look to maintain any hint of a fat loss effort for an extended period of time.

If you're not interested in outside perspectives, then I wouldn't come to a public forum like this. Yes, you asked a specific question and I gave you specific answers. My answers though were packaged with my opinions and experiences, and that's to be expected on a community like this.

I've been in the weight loss business for over a decade and in that time, I've learned that shooting straight at people rather than beating around the bush generally gets through to them more effectively.

If that's not okay with you, personally, I'll gladly refrain from posting in this thread again.

I can assure you though, the last of my intentions are to scold you. Or make you feel bad. I'm genuinely here to help for those who are receptive to my kind of help.

With all that out of the way...

You started this thread telling us that you started at 185 lbs eating roughly 1000 calories per day.

Caloric needs are comprised of basal metabolic rate (BMR), thermic effect of feeding (TEF), and thermic effect of activity (TEA).

BMR accounts for the vast majority of caloric needs... around 70% of them. An average number that's used to calculate BMR is 10 calories per pound. This would put you at roughly 1800 calories for BMR.

So if you were in a coma, you'd lose weight if you ate under 1800ish calories. You stated you were sedentary, but you're also not in a coma. You move around. You eat. You clean the house. You walk from your car into stores, etc.

Therefore, your true maintenance, though lower than someone who was exercising, was higher than 1800. Maybe something like 2000. Probably actually a bit higher unless you have some sort of medical condition you didn't disclose.

You see, caloric needs aren't very hard to figure out for anyone who's relatively healthy. Sure, unless you're living in an air tight chamber and using calorimetry, we're just working off estimates. But they're very reasonable estimates. It's not like a reasonable estimate would put you at a maintenance of 2000 calories and your true maintenance is actually 1300 or something crazy like that.

Knowing that your maintenance intake was close to 2000+ when you started and you were consuming roughly 1000 - that's where my initial commentary stemmed from.

Hopefully that explanation makes some sense now.

It's not what you're currently doing that matters when it comes to a plateau. It's what you've done in the past as your body handles stress on a cumulative basis. So if you dieted hard originally, which you did given your maintenance relative to your deficit, then you added exercise on top of it, there's a very good chance you were overburdening your body's capacity to manage stress accordingly and when that happens, wonky things happen. Some of these things are what's commonly referred to as the starvation response.

And that's where we come back full circle to my original advice.

If you were a paying client of mine, you'd be instructed to systematically bring calories up to maintenance over the course of a number of weeks where you'd stay for 7-14 days and minimize exercise during that time.

This would be viewed as a "recovery" period to give your body's stress management system a break, allow some things to reset, if you will, and provide you a "clean slate" to work effectively with going forward.

Or you could just wing it and see if bumping calories up a bit works for you. And if you do that, there's no way to reasonably answer what that bump should consist of in terms of proteins, carbs or fats. At least not without a thorough examination of your diet.

You could be eating too few grams of protein. In which case you should comprise the caloric bump primarily with protein. Or you might be short on essential fats, in which case the advice would be to comprise the caloric bump with healthy fats. You see where I'm coming from?

But where I come from the "secret" of long term success is eating as many calories as possible from nutritious foods that still allow for a reasonable rate of weight loss over time.

Without going back to maintenance and starting fresh, you're going to perpetually work in a smaller area of wiggle room between your current caloric intake and too low of a caloric intake to meet basic nutrient requirements.
 
Tigpuppy I hate to jump in after the blowout but you might want to add more calorie to your diet. Your body is probably in famine mode that is why you are not losing any lbs.

Try to eat some when you are hungry but stop when you are full. Easy. Slow down when you do eat but eat when you are hungry. This will fool your body into thinking you have plenty of food for the long haul.

Good luck
 
Steve,

Thank you for the post. I DO want to get outside opinions and advice (especially if they are from folks like you that are subject matter experts) so that if I have wrong information or misunderstood something and am doing something that may be harmful to me I can correct it. And I think putting this information in a public place like this is doing a great service to other people who may be in a simlar situation as myself. I think there's a lot people can learn from each other.

Knowlege is power after all!

When I commit to something I like to learn as much as I possibly can about it, and making this lifestyle change is one of the biggest I've ever made in my life. So I'm trying to educate myself so I can make the right choices. I had taken the BMR formula (the same one that is on the stickies on this site) and created a spreadsheet for myself that would calculate my BMR and maintenance levels for me so that I could change my weight as I lost and it would re-calculate everything for me. I also read that a good rate of loss is a pound a week, but that it was safe to lose up to 2 lbs a week. And that this could be done with a calorie deficit of 10 to 30%. So that's what I set as a goal for myself - 2 lbs a week and a 30% deficit. Because my understanding was that it would be safe. If that's not true, I'd sure like to know!

Initially when I started out at 185 lbs I calculated my BMR as 1589 (which is what I understood to be what I would need to maintain my current weight if I just laid in bed and breathed - nothing else), and maintenance level for a sedentary lifestyle put me at around 1900. By my calculations I should have been eating around 1300 calories a day to meet my goals. I also put my numbers into that fitday website and into a website that my health insurance company has that is similar. They both told me I should be eating 1200 calories a day, so I figured they should know what they are talking about and I may have calculated wrong or something, so I went with the lower 1200 level.

Most days I kept to the 1200 limit, only going over a handful of times. But there were also quite a number of days when I was only getting just over 1000 calories a day - which now I understand from you probably wasn't good for me. I know that all of these calculations are just estimated guesses (more or less) and that every person is different, but because I was consistantly losing about 2 lbs a week I assumed that the 1200 limit was correct for me. I also assumed that if it was too low (and possibly harming me), I would lose more than that? Maybe that's a wrong assumption? I don't know.

Now I probably could have continued along like I was, but I read that our bodies prefer to burn muscle over fat (especially if you aren't using those muscles for much) and that to get it to switch over to actually burning fat you needed to actually use those muscles, and that weight training would indicate to your body that it needed to keep those muscles around for something, instead of burning them for energy. Plus you got the extra bonus of the fact that if you had more muscle your body would burn more calories, even while at rest. Not a whole ton, but enough to be a nice little side benefit. I guess in my mind the only reason you needed to exercise when trying to lose weight was so that you would have something left on your bones besides skin when you had lost all of that excess fat. Exercise is good for us, but from what I understood the biggest key to losing weight is making lifelong changes to your eating habits. Is that not true?

So I started to make time to exercise (I was down to 165 by this time). But this has made it a LOT harder to figure out where that line is between losing and maintaining, or gaining. I weighed less now, so maintenance levels were now lower than what they were 20 lbs ago. But that's if I were still sedentary. But I'm not. I've worked myself up to 30 minutes, 5 days a week now with a weekly pattern of cardio-weights-cardio-rest-cardio-weights-rest (I couldn't just jump right into this, but have had to work up to it). So my reasoning was that at some point my body is going to need either the same calories as it did when I was heavier, or slightly more to keep losing at the same rate. But the more I was able to add in more exercise to my routine, the slower my rate of loss became. I hadn't really made any changes to my eating.

However, now I think it's time that I do that because the scale doesn't move much any more (even though the inches are still slowly decreasing). Maybe it's even time to re-evaluate my goals? I don't know if continuing to lose 2 lbs a week is realistic (or even healthy) at lower weight levels. As you weigh less, is it healthier to slow the rate of loss down?

I tried playing with the numbers on my spreadsheet to recalculate BMR (which is now down to 1450). I think that activity levels are pretty relative based on each individual. One person may think that they are getting moderate exercise when they work out 2 or 3 hours every day, while the next person considers that to be working out very hard. I haven't found black and white information yet on which multiplier you should use to figure out your new maintenance level when you are becoming more active. Any knowledge/advice anyone has on that would be greatly appreciated.

For my purposed I decided to use moderate as my exercise level. According to my calculations at a 30% deficit I should now be consuming around 1550 calories a day, but both web sites that I use are saying my new level should be 1400. They were 100 calories under my calculations before and still are roughly, so I figured I'd shoot for keeping things at around 1400 a day to see what happens. I started this about 2 weeks ago, and have pretty much kept my calorie sources at the 60/20/20 percentages on average.

Initially I had gained a couple of pounds, and I was trying not to panic. But around that same time I had also eaten some foods that were pretty salty (I found I really liked salads with just plain salt on them better than ones with low cal dressings) so figured that might have caused me to retain water. So I tried cutting out all that extra salt (plain salads with nothing on them are still better to me than ones with some of that yucky low cal dressing) and I have now lost those pounds that I gained and have actually started to see the scale start to move down a bit again.

I am sorry for being such a bitch in my last post, but I felt like I had done a lot of research and was trying to conciously make healthy choices for myself based on facts, not opinions. I've had a lot of people tell me what they think I should or should not do over the last few months to lose weight, but it's all been general opinion and not based on any medical knowledge or scientific proof on their part. And most did not know (or ask) a single thing about me (age, height, weight, sex) to base those opinions on. I guess it's made me a little defensive (ok, maybe a lot).

So Steve - if you are still out there and have made it thru all my ramblings - please accept my apologies. I did not know that you actually may know what you're talking about because you do this in real life and I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. I think it's fantastic that people like you take the time to come on to boards like this to share your knowledge to help people. This forum would not be nearly so helpful if it weren't for people like you.

Now based on your experience/knowledge do you think I'm way off base in what I've been doing/plan to do? Am I working from bad or incorrect information here or have I misunderstood some key part of this equation?

And the biggest question - am I doing permanent damage to my body?

If you're willing to share your knowledge and experience, I'm sure willing to learn!
 
Steve,

Thank you for the post. I DO want to get outside opinions and advice (especially if they are from folks like you that are subject matter experts) so that if I have wrong information or misunderstood something and am doing something that may be harmful to me I can correct it. And I think putting this information in a public place like this is doing a great service to other people who may be in a simlar situation as myself. I think there's a lot people can learn from each other.

Knowlege is power after all!

Couldn't agree more.

When I commit to something I like to learn as much as I possibly can about it, and making this lifestyle change is one of the biggest I've ever made in my life. So I'm trying to educate myself so I can make the right choices. I had taken the BMR formula (the same one that is on the stickies on this site) and created a spreadsheet for myself that would calculate my BMR and maintenance levels for me so that I could change my weight as I lost and it would re-calculate everything for me. I also read that a good rate of loss is a pound a week, but that it was safe to lose up to 2 lbs a week. And that this could be done with a calorie deficit of 10 to 30%. So that's what I set as a goal for myself - 2 lbs a week and a 30% deficit. Because my understanding was that it would be safe. If that's not true, I'd sure like to know!

And that's perfectly fine. A safe bet in terms of rate of weight loss is 1% of total body weight per week. Granted, weight loss is not a linear phenomenon, so it'll hardly ever be that week in and out. But over the longer term, that should be the average if things are dialed in appropriately.

And yes, it's a feedback loop in some sense in that given the estimations surrounding caloric needs and caloric intakes, the rate of weight loss can tell us how over or under we are in our estimates.

So you were certainly on the right track and were using the right line of reasoning.

Initially when I started out at 185 lbs I calculated my BMR as 1589 (which is what I understood to be what I would need to maintain my current weight if I just laid in bed and breathed - nothing else), and maintenance level for a sedentary lifestyle put me at around 1900.

The numbers seem a bit low given everything I've seen in experience and research, but again, it's not a big deal as it's the process *after* the numbers are picked that matters most. Meaning - as long as you're adjusting your intake/expenditure based on rate of weight loss (high or low), that's all that really matters.

By my calculations I should have been eating around 1300 calories a day to meet my goals. I also put my numbers into that fitday website and into a website that my health insurance company has that is similar. They both told me I should be eating 1200 calories a day, so I figured they should know what they are talking about and I may have calculated wrong or something, so I went with the lower 1200 level.

Most days I kept to the 1200 limit, only going over a handful of times. But there were also quite a number of days when I was only getting just over 1000 calories a day - which now I understand from you probably wasn't good for me. I know that all of these calculations are just estimated guesses (more or less) and that every person is different, but because I was consistantly losing about 2 lbs a week I assumed that the 1200 limit was correct for me. I also assumed that if it was too low (and possibly harming me), I would lose more than that? Maybe that's a wrong assumption? I don't know.

I'd say 1200 for a 185 lb sedentary woman isn't terribly low. But it's low. And the lower you go, the harder it is to ensure proper nutrition. The starvation response is caused by not only eating less calories than your body needs... but also from inadequate nutrition. Some data highlights how some obese folks (who by definition are consuming more calories than their bodies need) are actually starving due to the lack of nutrient density in their diets.

Stricter calories means tighter control of food quality.

Now I probably could have continued along like I was, but I read that our bodies prefer to burn muscle over fat (especially if you aren't using those muscles for much) and that to get it to switch over to actually burning fat you needed to actually use those muscles, and that weight training would indicate to your body that it needed to keep those muscles around for something, instead of burning them for energy.

Sure, resistance training is one of the primary cues within our control to signal muscle preservation. That said, the importance of instituting this cue becomes more pronounced the leaner one becomes.

By that, I mean someone who's carrying around a lot of excess fat doesn't need to worry about muscle loss nearly as much as someone who's lean trying to get leaner.

I could make an argument that pretty much everyone should be doing some resistance training, but that'd be off topic.

Plus you got the extra bonus of the fact that if you had more muscle your body would burn more calories, even while at rest. Not a whole ton, but enough to be a nice little side benefit. I guess in my mind the only reason you needed to exercise when trying to lose weight was so that you would have something left on your bones besides skin when you had lost all of that excess fat.

I wouldn't say the only reason as there's a host of benefits associated with various forms of exercise that extend beyond its effect on body composition. But in terms of body comp... yes... it certainly influences partitioning, which is the body's control of where calories are going and coming from.

CONTINUED BELOW...
 
Exercise is good for us, but from what I understood the biggest key to losing weight is making lifelong changes to your eating habits. Is that not true?

I'd say diet is king. But research supports the idea that in order for weight loss to be maintained, exercise is extremely important. There are many reasons for this, but one of the largest is the fact that post-weight loss it appears that there's a substantial drop in calories expended via activity.

Many folks scratch their heads at that comment because, "Hey, I increased my activity via planned exercise which I coupled with my diet."

But that's missing a huge fraction of what comprises energy expended via activity. We have a genetic hardwire that dials down the amount of activity we expend, almost unconsciously, when we're exposed to extended caloric deficits.

This can be viewed as part of the "starvation mode" that everyone likes to talk about and exercise is the key player in what it takes to offset this adaptation to dieting.

So I started to make time to exercise (I was down to 165 by this time). But this has made it a LOT harder to figure out where that line is between losing and maintaining, or gaining. I weighed less now, so maintenance levels were now lower than what they were 20 lbs ago. But that's if I were still sedentary. But I'm not. I've worked myself up to 30 minutes, 5 days a week now with a weekly pattern of cardio-weights-cardio-rest-cardio-weights-rest (I couldn't just jump right into this, but have had to work up to it). So my reasoning was that at some point my body is going to need either the same calories as it did when I was heavier, or slightly more to keep losing at the same rate. But the more I was able to add in more exercise to my routine, the slower my rate of loss became. I hadn't really made any changes to my eating.

Hmm, I'm not sure I'm following your line of reasoning. Can you explain what you mean by "at some point my body is going to need either the same calories as it did when I was heavier, or slightly more to keep losing the same rate" ?

However, now I think it's time that I do that because the scale doesn't move much any more (even though the inches are still slowly decreasing). Maybe it's even time to re-evaluate my goals? I don't know if continuing to lose 2 lbs a week is realistic (or even healthy) at lower weight levels. As you weigh less, is it healthier to slow the rate of loss down?

See above.

And as you near your weight goals, the odd thing is it becomes less and less useful to use weight as your gauge or metric for measuring progress. For instance, you've added exercise, which can do all sorts of whacky things like add muscle, increase water storage, etc. So even though fat loss can still be happening, albeit at a reduced level given your now smaller size and adaptations associated with dieting, these losses can be completely masked by other markers that comprise weight that are rising.

Which is why it becomes increasingly important to use things like monthly pictures, measurements, etc. They tell a truer tale than weight at this stage in the game.

I tried playing with the numbers on my spreadsheet to recalculate BMR (which is now down to 1450). I think that activity levels are pretty relative based on each individual. One person may think that they are getting moderate exercise when they work out 2 or 3 hours every day, while the next person considers that to be working out very hard. I haven't found black and white information yet on which multiplier you should use to figure out your new maintenance level when you are becoming more active. Any knowledge/advice anyone has on that would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't worry about figuring out what multipliers to use. As noted above, what you pick as your intake matters little. It's what you do in response to what happens in terms of weight, body comp, feel, etc after you start using the calorie intake you initially picked.

It's an ongoing process... not a singular act.

Check out this article I wrote a bit ago.

I am sorry for being such a bitch in my last post, but I felt like I had done a lot of research and was trying to conciously make healthy choices for myself based on facts, not opinions. I've had a lot of people tell me what they think I should or should not do over the last few months to lose weight, but it's all been general opinion and not based on any medical knowledge or scientific proof on their part. And most did not know (or ask) a single thing about me (age, height, weight, sex) to base those opinions on. I guess it's made me a little defensive (ok, maybe a lot).

Haha, totally understand. No need for apologies, but since you threw one out there, it's certainly accepted. And I'm sorry as I know I can be a bit too straight forward or blunt at times.

I have a habit of jackhammering my ideas into people's heads rather than finessing them in there.

Now based on your experience/knowledge do you think I'm way off base in what I've been doing/plan to do? Am I working from bad or incorrect information here or have I misunderstood some key part of this equation?

Your plateau could be a few things:

1. You have been eating slightly too little and your body is fighting back by lowering the energy out side of the equation below what would be predicted using any equation for your new, lower weight. If this is the case, you'd have to either cut calories lower to "outpace" the adaptation to lowered calories or give your body a rest, as noted previously, to allow some things to reset.

The problem with the former approach is you can only cut calories so much before you start running into problems.

The problem with the latter approach is that if this isn't the case, you're adding calories for no reason and can experience temporary weight gain. But more folks should take a longer terms perspective and not worry about short term fluctuations.

2. You're adding muscle since you were previously sedentary. Sedentary folks can easily add a bit of muscle in the face of a calorie deficit, which, as noted previously, can render fat loss undetectable when using the scale. My advice in this case would be to stay the course and expand your stable of metrics you use to track how you're doing.

3. You could be underestimating the calories you're actually consuming, thus putting you nearer to maintenance than you believe. Many folks immediately shake their heads no at this possibility as they believe they are perfect. With tools such as food scales, fitday, and the like... sure, life of counting calories has become much simpler. But that doesn't negate the fact that even with these tools, humans straight SUCK at accurately recording energy intake.

There's a mound of research that supports this notion too. Even some that shows that registered dietitians inaccurately record their energy intake by a substantial margin.

4. The foods that comprise your calories might be holding you back. I think you hinted to what you were consuming, but I deleted some of your verbiage and am too lazy to open another window to see. But suffice it to say that obviously the nutrients you use to obtain your calories are vital to success. In very generic terms, I personally like to see:

a) protein at 1 gram per pound of goal body weight, or thereabouts.

b) fats at 25-30% of total calories, coming primarily from the good stuff.

c) 4-7 servings of fibrous veggies and 2-4 servings of fruits.

d) whatever is left in terms of your caloric allotment after a through c are taken care of can be filled with whatever you like and can control.

I could probably rattle off a few more numbers in terms of what the possibilities are, but I'm sure you can tell that there is nothing concrete here. It could be anything. All you can do is make an educated guess, try it, see what happens, and respond accordingly.

And the biggest question - am I doing permanent damage to my body?

No.
 
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