Hi, it has been a while since my last visit here, but I need some more help on running 400's now. I have always been a 3 mile CC runner, but I want to experiment with shorter distance. Any imput on getting way faster in the 400m would be great. I;m not looking to just get fast, but 46-49ish fast. I know it seems like a long shot, but it isn't impossible. I don't think I am the most polished runer, but I do know how to work hard. Information on me is that I am a junior in HS, my height is 6", I weagh 160 pounds, my best mile time is 5:22, and my best 400M is 62. I think I can do it. Just with alot of work. Thanks agian for any imput on my questions. It will be greatly appreciated.
400m questions
- Thread starter Muscle Man
- Start date
400m Training
For speed endurance you need to be doing 600m reps at about 80-90% of your 400m pace. This will develop your speed endurance and will take off a few seconds after a couple of weeks of doing 4*600m twice a week.
I used to be a 100m runner, but I fell ill and when I came back I had lost the initial pace you need. So at 15 I tried a 400m and realised I could do that at a reasonable pace. With 3 weeks of training under my belt, I had knocked my time down from 60 secs to 54.
By the end of the next season, without any winter training, I had a PB of 50.0. This year I am doing a full winter programme, training 3 times a week at the track, and doing weights twice a week. I am aiming to get my time down to 48.5 by the end of the next summer season.
Daz
For speed endurance you need to be doing 600m reps at about 80-90% of your 400m pace. This will develop your speed endurance and will take off a few seconds after a couple of weeks of doing 4*600m twice a week.
I used to be a 100m runner, but I fell ill and when I came back I had lost the initial pace you need. So at 15 I tried a 400m and realised I could do that at a reasonable pace. With 3 weeks of training under my belt, I had knocked my time down from 60 secs to 54.
By the end of the next season, without any winter training, I had a PB of 50.0. This year I am doing a full winter programme, training 3 times a week at the track, and doing weights twice a week. I am aiming to get my time down to 48.5 by the end of the next summer season.
Daz
Johnny- Its seems that when I watch Vegeta in the show, it makes me want to work out alot.
That gives me hope Darren. Thankyou for the imput. By the way, what is PB?
Thank you all for of the tips on running 400m's. I will have to start putting this training to work. Any weekly schedule that y'all think could be effective? Thanks again.
That gives me hope Darren. Thankyou for the imput. By the way, what is PB?
Thank you all for of the tips on running 400m's. I will have to start putting this training to work. Any weekly schedule that y'all think could be effective? Thanks again.
I actually have a TV set up in my courage courner where I play vegetas greats during heavy sets. When he blows himself up (Boo) is so motivational !
Can't say I have experience with the other program suggested, but the 100m uphills translate into great turnover speed in the end. Maybe a mix of both cycled schedules would work best, but that is speculation.
Happy running!
Can't say I have experience with the other program suggested, but the 100m uphills translate into great turnover speed in the end. Maybe a mix of both cycled schedules would work best, but that is speculation.
Happy running!
Alright. Thankyou all for everything.
400M rules
Well, I don't know that this will help, but I do have a little experience with the 400m. I came at it from the other end; had been a sprinter until high school, where I wasn't quite fast enough for the 100 and 200m anymore. And our school had an excellent cross country team, so those guys had the longer distances covered. The 400m was where we had an opening for the new guy (me), so that's where the coach put me, both in the relay and the individual.
The way I see it, you need to a) increase your top speed, and / or b) increase your ability to run longer periods at your top speed. To do well in the 400, you must basically run a sprint for the entire distance. I never got to the point in my one season that I could do this, although I did improve. My first split at the beginning of the season was a 53.6. Through the season that improved until in the regionals and states I ran a 51.6. No where close to the guy that won at a 46, or something, but I did qualify for the states.
Because of shin splints, my training was a little different, but basically it was multiple reps of less than 400m each day (on the grass because of the splints). I think the actual distance was closer to 300m. Through each of these I tried to maintain top speed for as long as possible. So I doubt that I increased my "natural" speed, but did condition my body for longer sustained speeds at or near top speed.
For the actual running of the events what I did was, I started my races like a 100m or pretty close to it, meaning - sprint. This usually takes you through the first turn. Down the back stretch I would "cruise," trying not to lose any track position. Depending on condition, then kick either in the last turn or the last straight. I think I got into this routine because the coach had put me in the 1st leg of the 4x400, and at that first meet we got the inside lane. That put everyone else out in front of me at the start, and my goal was to be caught up when we came out of the turn. Coach and others thought I was crazy for coming out so fast, but it worked, and we were in 1st when I handed off.
We had one guy on our team that had spent the winter running in order to improve his time in the 400m. But although he was in better condition, he lost speed and time. This may be more of your situation since you have been running distance. Someone else will have to help you out of that one.
Hope this helps.
FriesianFriend
Well, I don't know that this will help, but I do have a little experience with the 400m. I came at it from the other end; had been a sprinter until high school, where I wasn't quite fast enough for the 100 and 200m anymore. And our school had an excellent cross country team, so those guys had the longer distances covered. The 400m was where we had an opening for the new guy (me), so that's where the coach put me, both in the relay and the individual.
The way I see it, you need to a) increase your top speed, and / or b) increase your ability to run longer periods at your top speed. To do well in the 400, you must basically run a sprint for the entire distance. I never got to the point in my one season that I could do this, although I did improve. My first split at the beginning of the season was a 53.6. Through the season that improved until in the regionals and states I ran a 51.6. No where close to the guy that won at a 46, or something, but I did qualify for the states.
Because of shin splints, my training was a little different, but basically it was multiple reps of less than 400m each day (on the grass because of the splints). I think the actual distance was closer to 300m. Through each of these I tried to maintain top speed for as long as possible. So I doubt that I increased my "natural" speed, but did condition my body for longer sustained speeds at or near top speed.
For the actual running of the events what I did was, I started my races like a 100m or pretty close to it, meaning - sprint. This usually takes you through the first turn. Down the back stretch I would "cruise," trying not to lose any track position. Depending on condition, then kick either in the last turn or the last straight. I think I got into this routine because the coach had put me in the 1st leg of the 4x400, and at that first meet we got the inside lane. That put everyone else out in front of me at the start, and my goal was to be caught up when we came out of the turn. Coach and others thought I was crazy for coming out so fast, but it worked, and we were in 1st when I handed off.
We had one guy on our team that had spent the winter running in order to improve his time in the 400m. But although he was in better condition, he lost speed and time. This may be more of your situation since you have been running distance. Someone else will have to help you out of that one.
Hope this helps.
FriesianFriend
Hey everyone. I just got back after a while so I missed the last post. Thankyou so much for that info. I have just started really getting into the qourters about a week and 1/2 ago, and I can run a 60. I will continue the work. Thankyou again.
I have the same situation as you, and the same exact body stat of 6' 160lb. My dad is the track coach and he has gotten my time from 62 freshman year to 51 sophmore year (Trained from track season all the way untill basketball). He had me run up hill sprints for strength, but what really helps are down hill sprints if you are a distance runner. Basic training for 400m
STRETCHING
1)Do this for a long time and cover as many stretches as possible
---------------------------------------------------------------------
UPHILL SPRINTS
1) Find an incline that you can run for about 200m and run it ten times.
2) After each run whe you are going back down the hill, skip for height, but make sure not to land with you knee locked or it could hurt your knee.
3) Try to cover as much ground in each step while still going as fast as possible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DOWNHILL SPRINTS
1) Find a long stretch or road that has about a 12 degree incline (not much, but a noticeable incline; run down the hill 15 times
2) After each set skip for height like in up hill sprints
3) When running downhill try to increase the speed of your steps, this will get you to increase the amount of steps you can take in a given amount of time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
STRIDES
1) Run a 100m with a person to guess your stride length.
2) Mark this distance with some wood shims or trainer tape for a 50m sprint.
3) Try to run the sprint with your stride at that distance the whole time. (If your stride measure is off then readjust it as needed.)
4) As you get used to running this length (which will take about a week or two), start to extend it by thre or four inches. This helps extend your normal stride length to cover more ground each step.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
SET DISTANCE RUNNING
Run 1 800m
Walk 200m
Run 600m
Walk 100m
Run 300m
Rest 45 seconds
Run 400m
Walk 200m
Run 200m
Walk 400m
Rest 5 minutes
Strentch 5 minutes
---------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERRUNS
The reason for the following is the overtraining concept. "If you run more distance when you are in practice, then the meet distance seems shorter and easier." The idea is to run the length of the race (400m) plus the amount of time that you want to take off of your time (13 seconds for you.) So, what you want to do is run about 600m as fast as you can like it were a real meet and have someone time you and mark off where you are when you are at 75 seconds (which should be about 510m). This will help you realize how much you have to improve. Now the goal is to get to the spot that you reached at 75 seconds and lower that time to 62. The only way this will work is if you trick your mind into thinking that the distance you are running as actually 400m. By the time that you get close to reaching that distance at close to 62 seconds your 400m will be significantly lower.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Do these excersizes in that order and rotate doing the Set Distance Runs with the Overruns (Monday SDR, Tuesday OVR, Wednesday SDR, etc...)
This proved to be the best workout I had ever used and it improved my running ability like crazy. I moved my 400m down to 51 from a 62 and my 800m to 2:06 from 2:14. Of course I wasn't in great shape at the beginning, I just had run in middle school but those times were just natural with little real training.
Hope this all helps
STRETCHING
1)Do this for a long time and cover as many stretches as possible
---------------------------------------------------------------------
UPHILL SPRINTS
1) Find an incline that you can run for about 200m and run it ten times.
2) After each run whe you are going back down the hill, skip for height, but make sure not to land with you knee locked or it could hurt your knee.
3) Try to cover as much ground in each step while still going as fast as possible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DOWNHILL SPRINTS
1) Find a long stretch or road that has about a 12 degree incline (not much, but a noticeable incline; run down the hill 15 times
2) After each set skip for height like in up hill sprints
3) When running downhill try to increase the speed of your steps, this will get you to increase the amount of steps you can take in a given amount of time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
STRIDES
1) Run a 100m with a person to guess your stride length.
2) Mark this distance with some wood shims or trainer tape for a 50m sprint.
3) Try to run the sprint with your stride at that distance the whole time. (If your stride measure is off then readjust it as needed.)
4) As you get used to running this length (which will take about a week or two), start to extend it by thre or four inches. This helps extend your normal stride length to cover more ground each step.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
SET DISTANCE RUNNING
Run 1 800m
Walk 200m
Run 600m
Walk 100m
Run 300m
Rest 45 seconds
Run 400m
Walk 200m
Run 200m
Walk 400m
Rest 5 minutes
Strentch 5 minutes
---------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERRUNS
The reason for the following is the overtraining concept. "If you run more distance when you are in practice, then the meet distance seems shorter and easier." The idea is to run the length of the race (400m) plus the amount of time that you want to take off of your time (13 seconds for you.) So, what you want to do is run about 600m as fast as you can like it were a real meet and have someone time you and mark off where you are when you are at 75 seconds (which should be about 510m). This will help you realize how much you have to improve. Now the goal is to get to the spot that you reached at 75 seconds and lower that time to 62. The only way this will work is if you trick your mind into thinking that the distance you are running as actually 400m. By the time that you get close to reaching that distance at close to 62 seconds your 400m will be significantly lower.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Do these excersizes in that order and rotate doing the Set Distance Runs with the Overruns (Monday SDR, Tuesday OVR, Wednesday SDR, etc...)
This proved to be the best workout I had ever used and it improved my running ability like crazy. I moved my 400m down to 51 from a 62 and my 800m to 2:06 from 2:14. Of course I wasn't in great shape at the beginning, I just had run in middle school but those times were just natural with little real training.
Hope this all helps
Wow! 
i appreciate all of the info you posted above. It all makes alot of sense. When you run the 510's, it is all in your head. If I can do that, it will make my 400 faster and alot easier. I gues running downhill would train your leg muscles to twitch faster. Could you explain how the stride works again? I've tried to extend my stride in the past, but it seems as though my time suffers a bit. And should I do all this in one day, or break it up a bit? Thankyou all again for everything you all have told me.
P.S. My coach ordered new spikes for me and a select few who are running track. Everyone else gets handmedowns. This aught to improve my time by 1 or 2 seconds too.
i appreciate all of the info you posted above. It all makes alot of sense. When you run the 510's, it is all in your head. If I can do that, it will make my 400 faster and alot easier. I gues running downhill would train your leg muscles to twitch faster. Could you explain how the stride works again? I've tried to extend my stride in the past, but it seems as though my time suffers a bit. And should I do all this in one day, or break it up a bit? Thankyou all again for everything you all have told me. P.S. My coach ordered new spikes for me and a select few who are running track. Everyone else gets handmedowns. This aught to improve my time by 1 or 2 seconds too.
You are very welcome Muscle Man (Is it really ALL Muscle.....Man?) The stride thing takes a while to figure out, almost as long as it takes for it to work. The following is just about as meticulous of a set of directions I can give you.
The idea is to be aware of when and where you should step, but not slow down or hop to get to the stride marks, and make sure to keep proper running form the entire time. (It is absolutely destructive to stretch your stride beyong your capabilities, so if you can't go any farther, then get in a weight room so that your legs can get strong enough to push you far enough.) It is all about finding the sweet spot in your stride.
IN DEPTH STRIDES
1) You find out how long your stride is when you run the pace you are going to run in whatever event.
2) Find a set distance (anywhere from 50m to 75m)
3) Get out some tape.
4) From the starting point of the length you chose in step 2, put down a piece of tape every time you get to the length that your stride should be.
NOTE: It is usually best to set down four or five strides and run them to see if
you need any adjustments to your distance between tape. Also, try
and put the tape to where you can see it when you stride but out of
the way enough so that you don't have to untape before a track meet.
(This is why wood shims work well too.)
5) Once the tape is down, run the length of step 2 at least ten times or more each practice. (It may be helpful to run the distance at random points during a break you might take or whatever, just to see how your stride varies when you are at certain stages of fatigue.)
6) This is by far the most important step for improvement. Once you feel that you have got the hang of how far your stride should be every step, however long it took you to get there, that is how much longer you need to run that distance. (So if it takes you 5 practices to get used to your stride, then run that stride for 10 practices.)
7) Once you have run that distance for a long time and made your stride equal for each step, run the distance of your event for a time trial (run just like it is a meet).
8) Remember that time. (Yes it deserves its own number.)
9) After the time trial, add three to four inches to the length in between the tape.
10) Once you feel that you have got the hang of how far your stride should be every step, however long it took you to get there, that is how much longer you need to run that distance. This will take longer than it did with your original stride.
11) Repeat steps 7-10 until you can't stretch your stride any longer without suffering speed decrease.
Okay, so that is what you do on the front end of things, but once you get to where you have some time trials in hand then follow these directions.
HOW FAR YOU GO, HOW FAST YOU GET THERE, IN HOW MANY STEPS, AND HOW HARD DO YOU HAVE TO TRY. I feel the urge to extrapolate just alittle more so that you don't mess this part up.
I'll set this up in a math problem. For the sake of the examples, everything is on a scale of 1 to 10
D is how far you go (Stride)
F is how fast you get to each stride (Speed)
S is how many steps you take in your race (Steps) (higher number is less steps)
E is how hard you have to try (Effort)(for this one low numbers are harder effort.)
T is your time on a scale of 1 to 40 (Time) (Higher is better)
D+F+S+E=T is the math problem
7+6+6+3=22 This means you have good stride, good speed, good steps, but you try pretty hard.
9+2+6+2=19 Even though the stride is longer, the speed at which you take each stride is slower, you don't improve your step count, and you have to try really hard.
5+9+5+7=26 This is optimal settings, your stride is in your range, your speed is really good, you take a couple steps extra, but you don't have to try nearly as hard to get to each step as you do in the others.
As far as what workouts to do, it is all dependant on how hard you want to work on each and how long you want to take. Neverthe less, I would definately get in as many as possible each day. Try not to rest very much, and keep hydrated. If you don't rest this will help build stamina and consequently improve your time aswell. So, I were you, I would figure out when I was going to be the most tired, and have my strides done then, and use them to build stride stamina and also somewhat cool you down if you had been running terribly hard. Also, don't doe OverRuns and Set Distance Running on the same day, unless you only do those two.
P.S. Way to go on being in the new spike group! Our school makes us buy our own everything. We get our uniforms and the "good" runners get warm-ups. Our track program has negative amounts of money since we had to buy new 10k regulation pole vault mats (we have a state top 6 person, so we needed for him to bew able to pratice) HAHA.
Also, when running in new spikes, make sure that when your foot hits the ground it isn't still in forward motion, try and land on your foot at the point where you are going straight down and push forward at an angle less than 45 degrees, this will allow you to get the most power from each step because you don't lose momentum by hitting the ground to early and having your leg lock out and push hard at your hip. That is bad, and you probably didn't even need for me to tell you that, but technique can cost seconds so you never know.
Could my posts be any longer?
Hope this all help
The idea is to be aware of when and where you should step, but not slow down or hop to get to the stride marks, and make sure to keep proper running form the entire time. (It is absolutely destructive to stretch your stride beyong your capabilities, so if you can't go any farther, then get in a weight room so that your legs can get strong enough to push you far enough.) It is all about finding the sweet spot in your stride.
IN DEPTH STRIDES
1) You find out how long your stride is when you run the pace you are going to run in whatever event.
2) Find a set distance (anywhere from 50m to 75m)
3) Get out some tape.
4) From the starting point of the length you chose in step 2, put down a piece of tape every time you get to the length that your stride should be.
NOTE: It is usually best to set down four or five strides and run them to see if
you need any adjustments to your distance between tape. Also, try
and put the tape to where you can see it when you stride but out of
the way enough so that you don't have to untape before a track meet.
(This is why wood shims work well too.)
5) Once the tape is down, run the length of step 2 at least ten times or more each practice. (It may be helpful to run the distance at random points during a break you might take or whatever, just to see how your stride varies when you are at certain stages of fatigue.)
6) This is by far the most important step for improvement. Once you feel that you have got the hang of how far your stride should be every step, however long it took you to get there, that is how much longer you need to run that distance. (So if it takes you 5 practices to get used to your stride, then run that stride for 10 practices.)
7) Once you have run that distance for a long time and made your stride equal for each step, run the distance of your event for a time trial (run just like it is a meet).
8) Remember that time. (Yes it deserves its own number.)
9) After the time trial, add three to four inches to the length in between the tape.
10) Once you feel that you have got the hang of how far your stride should be every step, however long it took you to get there, that is how much longer you need to run that distance. This will take longer than it did with your original stride.
11) Repeat steps 7-10 until you can't stretch your stride any longer without suffering speed decrease.
Okay, so that is what you do on the front end of things, but once you get to where you have some time trials in hand then follow these directions.
HOW FAR YOU GO, HOW FAST YOU GET THERE, IN HOW MANY STEPS, AND HOW HARD DO YOU HAVE TO TRY. I feel the urge to extrapolate just alittle more so that you don't mess this part up.
I'll set this up in a math problem. For the sake of the examples, everything is on a scale of 1 to 10
D is how far you go (Stride)
F is how fast you get to each stride (Speed)
S is how many steps you take in your race (Steps) (higher number is less steps)
E is how hard you have to try (Effort)(for this one low numbers are harder effort.)
T is your time on a scale of 1 to 40 (Time) (Higher is better)
D+F+S+E=T is the math problem
7+6+6+3=22 This means you have good stride, good speed, good steps, but you try pretty hard.
9+2+6+2=19 Even though the stride is longer, the speed at which you take each stride is slower, you don't improve your step count, and you have to try really hard.
5+9+5+7=26 This is optimal settings, your stride is in your range, your speed is really good, you take a couple steps extra, but you don't have to try nearly as hard to get to each step as you do in the others.
As far as what workouts to do, it is all dependant on how hard you want to work on each and how long you want to take. Neverthe less, I would definately get in as many as possible each day. Try not to rest very much, and keep hydrated. If you don't rest this will help build stamina and consequently improve your time aswell. So, I were you, I would figure out when I was going to be the most tired, and have my strides done then, and use them to build stride stamina and also somewhat cool you down if you had been running terribly hard. Also, don't doe OverRuns and Set Distance Running on the same day, unless you only do those two.
P.S. Way to go on being in the new spike group! Our school makes us buy our own everything. We get our uniforms and the "good" runners get warm-ups. Our track program has negative amounts of money since we had to buy new 10k regulation pole vault mats (we have a state top 6 person, so we needed for him to bew able to pratice) HAHA.
Also, when running in new spikes, make sure that when your foot hits the ground it isn't still in forward motion, try and land on your foot at the point where you are going straight down and push forward at an angle less than 45 degrees, this will allow you to get the most power from each step because you don't lose momentum by hitting the ground to early and having your leg lock out and push hard at your hip. That is bad, and you probably didn't even need for me to tell you that, but technique can cost seconds so you never know.
Could my posts be any longer?
Hope this all help
Last edited:
How long did it take ya to right that?
Thankyou so much for all of the info above. I could'nt ask for anything else. I never knew that your stride is so important. I think the formula thing that I fall into is the first one you put down, but I can work on that. Coach had me running the mile and two mile in track, but to tell ya the truth, I hate the two mile in track. I would rather run three miles in CC than run the two mile in track. So I talked to him and I think that he is going to let me do the 400 and mile. Thats cool for me. Though, I do hve some competition. There is a guy at our school who has gone to state in two events his junior year year, and he plans to do it agian this year. Those events were the 400m and the 200 something hurdles. He has already started training everyday now. I plan to be one of those guys who sneaks up tp bite ya later on. I"m not on his radar because I've always done distence. But hopfully this year is different. I am putting all of everyones tips together. Thankyou again for everything.
Thankyou so much for all of the info above. I could'nt ask for anything else. I never knew that your stride is so important. I think the formula thing that I fall into is the first one you put down, but I can work on that. Coach had me running the mile and two mile in track, but to tell ya the truth, I hate the two mile in track. I would rather run three miles in CC than run the two mile in track. So I talked to him and I think that he is going to let me do the 400 and mile. Thats cool for me. Though, I do hve some competition. There is a guy at our school who has gone to state in two events his junior year year, and he plans to do it agian this year. Those events were the 400m and the 200 something hurdles. He has already started training everyday now. I plan to be one of those guys who sneaks up tp bite ya later on. I"m not on his radar because I've always done distence. But hopfully this year is different. I am putting all of everyones tips together. Thankyou again for everything.
Just a quick update on my performance. I can now run about a 56-57ish quarter. I think that if I don't keep getting faster quick, then I won't be able to run the 400m. I know that I am running the mile in track, I just hope that I get fast enough in time. I need to get to about a 53 in a week to a week an 1/2. It can be done. I will keep you all posted.