2.5 months,....haven't lost 1lb OR 1 inch!

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Dr. Jim

New member
Greetz everyone,...

I will try to be brief.

38 yr old male. 6'3, 284lbs - No health issues. Maint. cal. intake 3197

History: Periods of either being active and healthy with a low weight/BF%, AND periods of being very inactive/unhealthy with weight up to 270.
2002 I was very active/ate right and was at 210lbs, 9%bfat.
2004 - went through some issues,...spiraled downhill and over the next few years smoked, drank and ate my way up to 280lbs.

3 months ago I ceased all alcohol consumption, smoking and went back to eating 5-6 small meals a day. PRIOR to that I was eating crappy, drinking 8 beers a night and smoking alot.

Currently (and for the last 3 months) I eat apprx 2000-2400cal a day
Typical day:
40 minutes cardio 4-5 days a week - heart rate at 70%max (Polar monitor)
7am - protein/oatmeal
10am - myoplex MRP lite bar
noon - chicken breast or tuna with apple
2pm - turkey sausage
4pm - protein shake
6pm - pre workout - apple/natty peanut butter
weight workout - 3 day split, 1 rest day then repeat
post workout - protein/dextrose
8pm - large meal of fish and veggies, or turkey/veggies...etc.

I have maybe 2-3 cheat 'meals' a week on weekend: pizza or such,...otherwise I stick to the above.

What I find ODD is that I have not lost 1lb in almost 3 months of this.

- My clothes are NOT the slightest bit looser, so there goes the 'fat loss/muscle gain' theory

- I am gaining strength, I am adjusting my weights up almost every week. But no discernable fat loss at all.

- I am aware of starvation mode, and that these few cheat meals are not good at all, (and that my daily macros could be better). BUT lets be realistic here,...to cease all that alcohol (apprx 7000cal/week),..AND dropping all the bad food, stopping smoking..etc..etc...to think I would not see even a SMALL weight drop is quite odd.

Any thoughts from you wise folks?

My motivation is definately starting to be affected.

btw - In 2002 when I lost 50lbs, (and wasnt knowledgable) I simply did 1 hour of cardio a day, ate about 1500 cal a day (fish and RICE every night!), lifted weights and the weight came off about 4lbs a week,...and I had 6pack abs in 4 months. Sure I'm older now,....but still?
 
I appreciate the info about toxins.

But let me clarify, I do not drink. I ceased all alcohol consumption 3 months ago, along with quitting smoking (yes cold turkey), and changing the diet completely.

I do supplement with whole food vitamins, anti-oxidents and BCAA's. Not to mention the Protein supp's which also contain BCAA's and vitamins.

I suppose I could add 'green tea' to my daily routine,...but I seriously doubt this is why I have not lost 1 single pound.
 
I know you don't want the 'Hold on, be strong. Give it time and you'll see the weight fall off.', but hang in there. There might be a medical reason behind your lack of weight loss if you know that you've been eating better and exercising regularly. You might want to think about making an appointment with your doctor or a nutritionist to see if they have any input. Maybe running a few tests could help determine why or eliminate possible medical reasons for your lack of loss. A visit for a physical is never a bad idea anyway. Best of Luck! :)
 
Dr. Jim,
I have no idea who "Heartsdomain" is, but his post looks suspciously like spam to me, and I have reported it.

Whenever people start spouting off about "toxins" I start to get a little suspicious.

First of all, our bodies have over 100 different types of bacterial and microbial colonies living on our skin at any one time. Are these "toxins"? Well yes, in a sense they are, but they also are responsible for getting rid our our dead skin, and other stuff we sluff off during a normal day.

Our intestines are full of "toxins" and rightly so. Without them, we wouldn't be able to digest food.

I find that much of the time, talk about "toxins" is nothing more than a way to avoid the hard and painful truth -- the vast majority of people gain or lose weight because of their energy balance, not because of the "toxins" in their bodies.

I have been on 7 plateaus in the past 13 months. Eventually, I broke through every one of them. Please take a look at the "Words of Wisdom" thread in the "On Topic" forum. There are some posts there about plateaus that may help you.

The first thing I would do, if you haven't done it already, is take a look at the actual calories you are taking in and expending. You can do this with a program like FitDay. You may be very surprised to find that your deficits on your "good" days are smaller than you think they are, and that they are getting completely wiped out by your surpluses on your "cheat" days.

Also, you may have a lower metabolism than most people. I'm 6 feet and 223 lbs., but my maintenance calorie intake is around 2400 cals, quite a bit lower than the typical person.

You may want to check with your doc as well, and make sure there aren't any underlying issues affecting your metabolism.
 
TomO - Yup. I felt the same way about the toxin post,...but I figured I would be cordial about it. ;-)

You might have some merit with your thoughts on my 'cheats'....., and yes, I keep track of my intake via a spreadsheet.

Lets try some math:
The values used will be averaged and approximated values since every day is slightly different,...we will look at a week:

Average day:

meals+workout nutrition = 2058 claories (30fat,192carb,352protein)
Subtract 500cal from excercise (typical cardio session burns 1000, weights around 300 - so we will average low)
______________________________________________________________
Daily cals from above at apprx 1550 (intake minus expended)
1550(total) minus 3197 (cal req.) = apprx 1500 cal deficit daily
______________________________________________________________

1500 daily deficit times 7 days = 10,500 caloric deficit for the week.

Subtract 3 Large Little Ceasars Pepperoni Pizza's (lets pretend that much) at 2300calories each = 6900 calories
______________________________________________________________
10,500 calorie deficit minus 6900 Cheat Calories = apprx 3500cal deficit still.

So, hypothetically,.....my deficit even if I eat 3 large pizza's a week, would lead to SOME "measurable" weight loss. Something over the course of 11 weeks?

I think?
 
Few questions Jim...

Even with cheat meals included how on are you thinking you are about your caloric intake. Can you say 100% that you know what you are taking in daily?

How much did you smoke daily?

How is your water intake?

Are you taking pictures?

For the record Jim I have worked with those in your position almost saying the exact same things, the problem is there, just need to troubleshoot it. I have worked with quite a few recovering smokers and it can propose some challenges...but let me not jump ahead too much, i will wait for those answers.
 
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work harder, and loose any white things for a week

no bread, no salt, no sugar, no starchs

and move on from there
 
Thanks!

I can say with very good accuracy I know what I am taking daily.

- I keep a spreadsheet, which contains all the foods I eat normally, and there breakdowns in carbs/fat/protein..etc. I simply copy/paste from my food column into my daily column. The sheet is formulated to keep running totals daily and weekly.

- I do not eat out except on cheat meals. 2-3 times a week max.

- I use a Polar heart monitor for my cardio and weight sessions. I input that data into the spreadsheet daily.

- I 'did' smoke about 2-3 cigars (not inhaling) daily, for about 2 years. Quit cold 3 mo. ago.

- Water intake could be better,....1 gal a day on the high end (excluding water in prot. shakes) and maybe 1/2 gal on the low end.

I am not taking pictures. (I know!). But I am using my 'clothes' as my guide. And the scale as well. I do not live by the scale,....heck,..I wish the scale was going UP and my clothes were getting looser...that would mean muscle gain ;-)

I am actually in good shape,...just in a fat persons body. I can run several miles without stopping or dropping dead. My cardio is done with my heart at about 150-160 BPM. I can do this for 1.5 hours if I feel like it.
I hike once a week for 4 miles, in very hilly, rugged terrain. I am definitely not your 'out of breath, can't do 10 minutes of cardio' heavy guy.

There's your data. Any further thoughts would be soooo appreciated.
 
JeremyRice said:
work harder, and loose any white things for a week

no bread, no salt, no sugar, no starchs

and move on from there
Click to expand...

Sorry have to disagree with this advice and Jim I would ignore it.

While I agree that white processed ingredients aren't that great, this is not likely the problem.

Salt does not cause fat gain or loss, merely issues of water balance.

Starches are not bad, in fact they can be very good for the body and made to work usefully.

Rule of thumb, if you are going to be trivial and cut out certain things, wait only till the END of your journey, not the beginning.
 
Hi Dr. Jim,

Don't lose motivation.. I know it can be difficult! Yesterday I had a great diet and exercise day.. and then I let the temptation of partying get the best of me and consumed 800 late-night calories... the worst! But instead of being down in the dumps and depressed, how I would normally be, I am staying strong today. I am working that much harder.

Sounds like your typical diet is great.. Maybe you've just hit a plateau? When I hit a plateau I usually do two things: I up my cardio by 10-20 minutes per day and I cut out one simple thing from my diet. Maybe start cutting out the turkey sausage every day? Or no apple with peanut butter? Just one small thing will sometimes end up putting you over the plateau. Don't cut out anything major, just something slight while upping your cardio. Try it! What have you got to lose, besides weight? :)

Hope you are having a happy, healthy day. Continue down the right path, you're going to get there!

-Bride in Waiting
 
thx - Ironically,....I can't have hit a plateau, because I haven't dropped the first pound yet :-\

I would be quite happy to hit a plateau, that would at least mean that I was making some progress before I hit the plateau.

Maybe that should be my goal?.....hitting my first plateau!
 
Dr. Jim said:
Thanks!

I can say with very good accuracy I know what I am taking daily.

- I keep a spreadsheet, which contains all the foods I eat normally, and there breakdowns in carbs/fat/protein..etc. I simply copy/paste from my food column into my daily column. The sheet is formulated to keep running totals daily and weekly.

- I do not eat out except on cheat meals. 2-3 times a week max.

- I use a Polar heart monitor for my cardio and weight sessions. I input that data into the spreadsheet daily.

- I 'did' smoke about 2-3 cigars (not inhaling) daily, for about 2 years. Quit cold 3 mo. ago.

- Water intake could be better,....1 gal a day on the high end (excluding water in prot. shakes) and maybe 1/2 gal on the low end.

I am not taking pictures. (I know!). But I am using my 'clothes' as my guide. And the scale as well. I do not live by the scale,....heck,..I wish the scale was going UP and my clothes were getting looser...that would mean muscle gain ;-)

I am actually in good shape,...just in a fat persons body. I can run several miles without stopping or dropping dead. My cardio is done with my heart at about 150-160 BPM. I can do this for 1.5 hours if I feel like it.
I hike once a week for 4 miles, in very hilly, rugged terrain. I am definitely not your 'out of breath, can't do 10 minutes of cardio' heavy guy.

There's your data. Any further thoughts would be soooo appreciated.
Click to expand...

Alight Jim here is what I would do.

I would love to see your exact training (lifting program) to give some pointers there, but regardless of that my opinion is the same.

Now I get for you at your height and with your activity level form the general information you have given me a caloric burn daily of roughly 3500+ calories and thats on the light side. So right now if taking in 2000 calories thats a 1500 calories deficit and may be a bit much for your body can be causing inflammation and retention. Also not likely to produce any muscle gain, more likely losing muscle glycogen making you even less muscle dense. Throw in water transfer/balance, etc and you reach a stand still. Chances are if you waited it out you would have a rush of loss out of nowhere of quite a few pounds but it would be fleeting and wouldn't do much for long term.

I would suggest you cycling you caloric intake for right now to give your body a break. Higher calories on training days, lower calories on rest day, cut out all those shakes and supplements, start to get a real whole food program going on. Also meal frequency is a tad high in my opinion, when you are negative energy give your digestion system a little bit of a break. I would be curious to know how regular you are but that I know is a bit of a personal question. You lack a lot of "food" in your food. On a short term basis like for a V-Diet is one thing but not for months at a time. You obviously don't have the body type to respond to that anyway.

I cannot give you specific caloric intakes giving I don't know your full situation etc but your bmr is 2300-2500 roughly and you should use that as your bench mark to never go below. Decrease as needed once weight is lost.

Basically the short of it is this...

-bounce caloric intake high and low based on training
-Cut meal frequency down a little stick to 4-6 meals a day here
-put more whole foods in your diet, more carbs, more EFAs as well. (curious to see your ratios in general)
-Change your training program to be more efficient, Better work not meaning longer or even harder.
-Allow for proper rest and recovery
-Start working on a stretching program, with those little nutrients your body is set up for injury, help it by working WITH your joints.

This is the bulk of my advice, hope this helps.
 
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OK Leigh. You have some interesting observations there.

I'm going to digest all this (pun?...eh...) and draw up either some conclusions, questions, or simply get more distraught ;-)

btw
- V diet?....Actually thought about it. I know...I know. But still,..it would do 'something'
- More whole food?....hmmm...whole world of discussion there...maybe later.
- Regular as a clock believe it or not, and picture perfect.

Doc goes off to think now......hmmm.....
 
Leigh P. said:
Sorry have to disagree with this advice and Jim I would ignore it.

While I agree that white processed ingredients aren't that great, this is not likely the problem.

Salt does not cause fat gain or loss, merely issues of water balance.

Starches are not bad, in fact they can be very good for the body and made to work usefully.

Rule of thumb, if you are going to be trivial and cut out certain things, wait only till the END of your journey, not the beginning.
Click to expand...

this guys on a plateau... this way always works for me to cleanse ur body and get u back on track

but i guess im wrong since it works for me every time.... haven't had an issue with not loosing weight thus far,

you just have to keep increasing ur intensity, to get ur body to the level it needs to burn what it did last week.
 
Dr. Jim said:
OK Leigh. You have some interesting observations there.

I'm going to digest all this (pun?...eh...) and draw up either some conclusions, questions, or simply get more distraught ;-)

btw
- V diet?....Actually thought about it. I know...I know. But still,..it would do 'something'
- More whole food?....hmmm...whole world of discussion there...maybe later.
- Regular as a clock believe it or not, and picture perfect.

Doc goes off to think now......hmmm.....
Click to expand...

You can do without the V diet for now doc. Its too extreme for even the most dedicated of individuals and probably not something you want to try when you dont need to.

4 of your 8 meals are from protein shakes/mrps. Plus I dont see any vegetables in your plan. Take Leighs advice, read it a few times and ask any further questions if need be. Please list your exercise routine in detail.

JeremyRice said:
this guys on a plateau... this way always works for me to cleanse ur body and get u back on track

but i guess im wrong since it works for me every time.... haven't had an issue with not loosing weight thus far,

you just have to keep increasing ur intensity, to get ur body to the level it needs to burn what it did last week.
Click to expand...

This guy hasnt lost any weight to plateau. Go back and read his diet plan and you dont see any of the stuff you mentioned to remove. You can argue oatmeal, but I wouldnt remove such a great food.

Please make your signature smaller also.
 
heh...thx,...and yes the V diet is a bit too extreme....but it's nice to know there are some 'crazy' options out there. Fun to read about.

And I am still a bit unsure if my whole food/shake/MRP ratio is 'that' bad.

I typically have 4 meals a day of whole food, usually a mid morning meal of an MRP,...and then my preworkout is either protein/carbs OR an apple w/natty PB. My post workout (immediately) is most always protein shake/carbs....or lately its been protein blended with ice and blueberries.

Then a BIG dinner. My dinner is (unfortunately) my largest meal of the day,...and I eat ALOT of fish,....Tilapia/Shrimp with 3-4 cups veggies, or Salmon with 3-4- cups veggies,...or Turkey Burgers (no bread) with alot of veggies.
Cook the veggies with a little Sesame Oil/Sesame seeds.

So I DO eat a good deal of veggies 5 nights a week....and alot of fish (Omega 3's).......

Weights?

Not too intense.
(note: I 'know' squats and deadlifts are the big moves,...BUT unfortunately due to back issues I cannot do them. Last time I tried, WITH my PT....compressed 2 discs....so they are out. I do what I can without risking setbacks)

Day 1 - chest (3x7-10 dbell press, 3x7-10 incline smith press, 3x7-10 dbell flys) and shoulders (3x7-10 dbell press, 3x7-10 dbell lat raises, 3-7-10 dbell front raises)

Day 2 - back (3x7-10 lat pulldowns widegrip, 3x7-10 lat pulldowns rev closegrip, 3x7-10 lat rows) and legs ( 3x7-10 extensions, 3x7-dbell squat, 3x7-10 rev curls)

Day 3 - arms (3x7-10 dbell curls, 3x7-10 straightbar curls and 3x7-10 rope pulldowns, 3x7-10 closegrip smith press)

Day 4 - rest (do cardio twice maybe?.....maybe not).....the repeat cycle.

note: 1 minute rest between sets, 2 minute rest between excercises. Slow motion, emphasize negative motion.


Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice. I have some solid things to consider. Right now,....

- I am thinking to maybe reduce my cheat meals to once a week (maybe)
- make sure to drink more water 1.5gal/daioly min
- replace 1 MRP with whole food (even if its just another can of tuna..)
- maybe,....MAYBE......MAYBE!....think about raising calories
 
Dr. Jim said:
- typical cardio session burns 1000,

- weights around 300

- 40 minutes cardio 4-5 days a week

- heart rate at 70%max (Polar monitor)
Click to expand...


What type of cardio do you do ( i.e jogging, bike, treadmill , rower, ? ) and how did you arrive at an estimate of 1,000 calories burned for cardio ?

You mentioned earlier that you were in ' good shape ' - any possibility if bumping up your cardio duration and or intensity ( i.e. above 70% - and why do you set a target of 70% btw ) ?

Have you given any thought of introducing some form of intervals into your cardio sessions ?
 
Cardio is elliptical machine. (hill hiking on weekends but I dont count that).

My calories burned from cardio comes from the fact I wear a "good" Polar Heart monitor, and therefore know my expended calories after each session of cardio and weights.

I picked 70% as a decent midrange of the 50%-85% target heart rate. Sometimes I go more,...sometimes not.

Intervals?....Yes, I have definately given it some thought,...I am aware of its metabolism raising effect duration vs steady cardio. I may very well start incorporating it.

Lets not forget though,...the core issue of my post is not that there is no room for improvement, or better alternatives to some of what I am doing. The core issue is that I am overall doing most things right, definately in a deficit, and yet not 1lb has come off, and not 1/2 inch has come off my waist.
But ofcourse, if I do take into account alot of what people are saying,...and DO make many adjustments to my core program then it is quite possible I will see results,....so I am considering all that is said.

Thanks again to everyone.
 
Dr. Jim said:
Cardio is elliptical machine. (hill hiking on weekends but I dont count that).

My calories burned from cardio comes from the fact I wear a "good" Polar Heart monitor, and therefore know my expended calories after each session of cardio and weights.

I picked 70% as a decent midrange of the 50%-85% target heart rate. Sometimes I go more,...sometimes not..
Click to expand...

Can you go harder ? For example ......perhaps closer to 75% - 80% over 40 minutes ?

On the Polar. So, you enter your weight, and for the duration - and it gives you the total calories you expended ...is that how it works - i.e is this Polar actually part ( a feature ) of the elliptical machine itself ?

Dr. Jim said:
Intervals?....Yes, I have definately given it some thought,...I am aware of its metabolism raising effect duration vs steady cardio. I may very well start incorporating it.
Click to expand...

Actually, my reason for suggesting intervals was much simpler than that....as I'm not referring to HIIT ( High Intensity Interval Training ) and it's metabolism raising effect post - exercise .

My sense was that by simply by introducing some moderate level intervals in your steady runs once in a while, you can improve the rate of improvement in your fitness level. And in doing so, be able to burn more calories during steady state exercise since as your fitness improves. As your aerobic capacity improves, and you can usually burn more calories doing state state cardio over the same 40 minutes. And, the added benefit is, once you have established a solid aerobic base, then you can look at HIIT - and all the fat burning benefits that come with it - i.e metabolism raising effect post -exercise. In other words, use intervals to build up your fitness level to maximize your calorie burn during steady state exercise - and as a solid foundation for HIIT.

Dr. Jim said:
Lets not forget though,...the core issue of my post is not that there is no room for improvement, or better alternatives to some of what I am doing. The core issue is that I am overall doing most things right, definately in a deficit, and yet not 1lb has come off, and not 1/2 inch has come off my waist.
Click to expand...

I'm not too clear on how intense or how you have improved in your weight training over the 3 months, but if you have had some modest drops in fat lbs. in might be possible that you have also had some modest increases in muscle weight - making the net change you see in your weight over 3 months rather negligible.

On your weight..

- how often a week do you weight yourself ?

- and is it with the same scale, time of day etc. ?​


You said you were at 9% bf at 210 lbs ( LBM = 190 lbs ) a while back ....

- do you have any idea what your current bf% is ?

- Do you think your current LBM ( Lean Body mass ) is still somewhere around 190-200 lbs. ?​


You also said you have BIG dinners with a LOT of fish / shrimp and veggies ( 3-4- cups veggies )......

- given you track your calores, how many calories do these BIG dinners usually total to ?​
 
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Yes,...I can go harder on my cardio,.....but I also do not want to burn too many calories,...so I suppose I could go harder, or interval and just do less time.

Polar is a company that makes IMO the best heart rate monitors. The work with a monitoring device strapped to your chest which sends a signal to a watch computer that displays alot of info, including heart rate. You must program it with your age, sex, height, weight....etc...and then go through some trials with it as it monitors your rate rate rise and such. Once calibrated, it will then track your calories expenditures for excercise,...keep logs for you..etc..etc. btw - It is not part of the elliptical.

It is 'slightly possible I lost some fat, and gained some muscle hence the scale doesnt move. But, my clothes are 100% the same. Which isnt good. And we are talking about several months here,....there should be some sign of shrinkage.

Same scale, once a week ,...in the morning.

No idea what my current BF% is. I am lifting heavier weight than I ever have in my life though. Heavier, and with better form.

Meal calories throughout day (average/apprx)
meal - cal

1 - 180cal

2 - 190cal

3 - 200cal

4 - 270cal

5 - 150cal

preworkout - 110cal
postworkout - 300cal

6 (dinner) - 728cal

Thanks again!
 
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