17 yr old Ectomorphic (skinny) wanting muscle

[Legemi]

hi every1 just joined today just wanted to here what you think of my routine and if you can answer a few of my questions. Ill explain my situation, im ectomorphic which means im skinny, ive been training on and off for around 2 years and took protein shakes along the line at points (however only 1 per day because at the time i diodnt have a job). i then stopped for about 5 month and now decided i wanted to start again. Im around 9 to 9 and a half stone and i believe im fairly toned, just dont hav much muscular mass. 4 days ago i bought Creatine ethyl eser and creatine alpha ketoglutarate. I am currently sticking to a strict rusheme which is a total upper body work out every day which lasts around 45 minutes. obviously i dont expect to see dramatic results, but id just like you guys to answer a few of my questions:

. is my work out substancial for what i want to achieve?
. my creatine im taking says you must take on an empty stomach, how long after i have eaten should i take this?
.in 5 days im doing an outwards bound course, would you recomend me taking my creatine during this 6 day period while im there, doing kayaking and sailing?
. on average how long shall i have to wait to see visable results?
. Should i take protein drinks aswell as creatine or just creatine on its own.
Am i allowed to eat between periods when i take my creatine (i have two tablets 30 mins before exercise and 2 30 minutes afterwards)?
. also i heard after a certain amount of weeks you should spend a week off creatine. is this the case with the creatine im taking aswell. and why do you do this?.


theres alot there hehe any response is realy apreciated thxs guys and girls
best regards M-I-C-H-A-E-l

 

[spicypumpkin]

If you read the stick about creatine, you will probably find answers to most of your questions. You also seem a little young to be taking it in the first place. You're 17, you're still growing. You don't know how your body will change in the next few years. Chances are, you don't need to be taking creatine. It increases your muscular endurance. It doesn't make your body produce more muscle. You still need to have the right diet/exercise program with plent of rest so your muscles can regenerate tissue lost during workouts.

Now this is important: WORKING OUT HEAVILY EVERY DAY WILL HINDER YOUR PROGRESS MORE THAN IT WILL HELP. I really want to stress the importance of letting your body rest. I know it feels great to workout, and I personally would love to do it every day, but your body NEEDS to rest. If you don't allow your muscles to rest for at least 48 hours, you will be breaking them down more than you are building them up. You want to limit weight training to 3 or 4 days a week and leave 48 hours between each type of body workout. So that means if you are doing squats on monday, wait until wednesday before you do them again. You should not be doing the same exercise two days in a row. I workout on monday's Wednesdays and Fridays. I alternate upper and lower body each day. I have more like 4-5 days between each type of workout, which is okay. It is alright to do light cardio every day, but remember, if you're trying to gain weight you could be burning too many calories if you try to do too much.

It sounds like you are very committed to this, and good for you. Just keep the goal in mind. Never lose sight of your goal. It will take a lot a time and determination, but if you work hard and inform yourself it will be a lot easier.

I would highly recommend the book: "The New rules of Lifting". It talks about everything you need to know about building muscle mass and strength and burning fat. It has many great exercises and full workouts and also a diet plan. No lifter should be without this book. I just bought it and I finished reading it in just a few days. It was a great read.

So, good luck with your goals. if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I'm also 17, and I'm really passionate about lifting. I am also hopelessly skinny and hope to gain weight. I have managed to get from 105 lbs to 120lbs, so it can be done.

 

[Legemi]

thxs for da great reply. im glad to see there are others that have been in same situation as me, ok then maybe i do an exercise 4 times a week, it will be an all round workout for my upper body each day, because i do plenty of football etc which helps my legs. doing the same muscles 4 times a week on a full upper body be ok or ? because u said do squats etc and giv at least 48 hours rest. problem is i have one of them multi gym things. so if i did only a certain muscle grp, the exercise would last for like 15 minutes etc lol. pls tell me wht u think and if im wrong tell me pls. And ive been reading other posts. You think i should bulk or ? and if so mostly carbs or proteins?

thxs for da help

 

[spicypumpkin]

I've read that it's okay to exercise the same muscle groups, not necessarily with the same exact muscles, two days in a row as long as you don't exercise more than two days in a row. So say you have a full body workout on Monday, do a different full body workout on Tuesday, and then take a break on Wednesday. You should not be working the exact same muscles two days in a row.

 

[Chillen]

hi every1 just joined today just wanted to here what you think of my routine and if you can answer a few of my questions. Ill explain my situation, im ectomorphic which means im skinny, ive been training on and off for around 2 years and took protein shakes along the line at points (however only 1 per day because at the time i diodnt have a job). i then stopped for about 5 month and now decided i wanted to start again.

Welcome to the forum, Brotha! What kind of progress have you seen in two years? Honestly, this is enough time to see "substancial" progress. What was your goals during this 2 year period?

Why do you stop for 5 months? What prompted you to start again?

Im around 9 to 9 and a half stone and i believe im fairly toned, just dont hav much muscular mass. 4 days ago i bought Creatine ethyl eser and creatine alpha ketoglutarate.

Okay, I understand you are taking Creatine....I have commented on this in the other sections in this response to the brotha!

I am currently sticking to a strict rusheme which is a total upper body work out every day which lasts around 45 minutes. obviously i dont expect to see dramatic results.

Before you read my other comments, I am curious. Your training the upper body everyday 45 minutes, and say you dont expect dramatic results. Why is your mentality and frame of mind like this? Why didnt or rather dont you expect dramatic results?

NOW LISTEN UP, my friend:


You MUST develop a better approach to your routine to IMPROVE the potential of your results.


To put on muscle mass on a normal healthy person three things must be present in the most basic sense: A diet that is in surplus calories, weight training to provide the muscle growth stimulation, and rest and recuperation (to allow growth and rebuild of muscle).

This is what you need to do:

1. Get the diet right

2. Have a training schedule each week that is progressive in nature (that involves full body)

3. Allow Rest and Recuperation to allow growth to occur



If you keep the basic sense of the aformentioned list you will not go wrong toward your goal, young man.

Training the upper body everyday is counter productive to the goals you seek. You are not allowing enough time for the body to rebuild itself before you hit it again with weight training. While the body is busy repairing the muscle tissue damage from the previous weight training session--you again tear it down while it is still in the process of rebuilding the tissue: You are simply hampering your potential growth. DO NOT DO THIS!--->Okay?

In addition, if you want upper body mass you must, in my opinion, include training the lower body. It is also counter productive to train just the lower body when the body is litterally designed to work in unison. You cut the lower body from your routine, you are cutting your own throat so to speak. You will be out of proper balance and you WILL hamper optimum growth potential.

Two exercises come to mind to drive this into your young brain:

The Dead Lift and Squat. The sheer power of these exercises will flat make you breath hard, sap your strength and energy to the bone--they can test your goal resolve BABY! They make even the big and mighty whimper like a baby.

There are a variety of reasons why. The Dead lift uses a variety of muscles of the upper and lower back, torso, and legs (to name a few). The Squat uses primarily the largest muscle in the body--the legs, with other muscles providing support functions. The Legs are the largest muscles in the body, and the Back as composite group are the second largest. The mere fact that these exercises can make one whimper and cry to Momma displays their POWER they possess. The body feed back can be tremendous because of the recruitment of muscles used and associated biological responses---to IMPROVE OVERALL BODY MASS.

You include these in your routine...... or I will hide under your bed with a large bull horn keeping you awake at night yelling this at you:.......DEADLIFT AND SQUAT!.......DO IT!.......................>ROCK WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!


Lets understand:


Weight progression EXAMPLE:


A Weight Program is a structured "Weight Lifting" Plan that you schedule certain exercises for a given time period.


For example (for simplicity's sake), schedule a full body workout on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and then rest on the weekend. The program should be complimenting the sort of diet you have and the goals you seek.

I recommend a writing down the exercises, weight being used, and then keeping track of the reps completed---to track progression, and if need be enable FORCE progression techniques. The KEY to training, is PROGRESSION. Trying with FULL THROTTLE to progress from one workout to the next (whether its an increase in reps or weight or both).

For example: you used 100lbs on Bent Over row and did 8 reps. The next workout with the back you want to get 9 reps, and so on and so forth. If the target cut off rep range is 12 (for example), then you would increase about 5 lbs. This is progression in its simple basic form.

I believe you have to track progress because its CRITICAL to ones success and to strength and/or muscle gains.

You can opt to do a Upper/Lower split (I do a "like" split). But, like me, you will have a slight problem in where to place the deadlift in the routine (but I have placed it on the upper portion of my program and this works for me). With a full body you will not have this complication.

but id just like you guys to answer a few of my questions:

. is my work out substancial for what i want to achieve?

I had answered this previously, but again the answer is NO. Training the upper body everyday is counter productive and you need to change it.

my creatine im taking says you must take on an empty stomach, how long after i have eaten should i take this?

I dont understand your strong sense toward Creatine. At the present, your STRONG focus should be:

1. Getting the diet correct, FIRST. If its weight gain, then learning your MT line, and setting a surplus appropriate for yourself. Getting proper ratios of Protein, carbs, and good fats-------THIS is the most important...CREATINE takes a back seat, BABY.

2. Restructuring your weight program to allow proper rest. And, at first applying a basic set/rep routine to bring muscle growth.

.in 5 days im doing an outwards bound course, would you recomend me taking my creatine during this 6 day period while im there, doing kayaking and sailing?

You can get Creatine from various meats that one eats. At the present your focus should be on your diet, young man, and your weight routine like I stated previously. While Creatine may have its uses and minor benefits, it ISNT all that, lol. What IS all that is the proper diet and proper stimulus in the weight room. Restructure your focus!.......ROCK ON!

on average how long shall i have to wait to see visable results?

If your talking muscle gains when you restructure your diet and present routine, the results will be----on going. Some results one doesnt see (internal changes that are required), but when you are talking outward visible results, these vary per individual and their starting place before training. When new to weight training one can get results fairly quickly. Give yourself a month, and you WILL see results if you make the changes I suggest.

. Should i take protein drinks aswell as creatine or just creatine on its own.

I had already commented on the Creatine. Yes, you can included Whey Protein powder in your diet. By all means do. I suggest without the Creatine.

If its protein with Creatine Mono, you could experience: Bloating and gas. On some persons, the body has a difficult time digesting and absorbing Creatine Mono. Be sure to drink lots of water with Creatine mono. You should be drinking as much water as you can anyway.

If are persistant in wanting to take Creatine, I suggest: Creatine Ethyl Ester. But at your age and various other reasons, I suggest you back off from Creatine and allow a good diet and routine do the work.


I am going to post some info for you to structure your caloric content in the next post.



ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!! Brotha!



Best wishes



Chillen

 

[Chillen]

If you plan to BULK:

UNDERSTAND THE MIGHTY CALORIE!!!!!!!​

The road to potentially bulking:


The road to your goal, is gaining knowledge of calories and nutrition within a diet proportioned to your age, wgt, hgt, and gender, which includes associated activities.

Then developing a scheduled training plan per week (which allows recuperation time) that compliments---a clean diet. When both are developed, then the key is consistency and then watching, looking, and being very mindful, of your bodily responses to your diet and training stimulus.



Surplus dieting is the MAIN thing that does the job.

Some Basic information that can lead you to weight tissue gain

Calorie calculation is an approximation science, remember this. Through your journey WATCH, LOOK, and LISTEN, to your body..........it will TELL YOU if your doing the correct things or combination of things!


○ Change your eating habits (below are some suggestion examples)

○ Substitute an artificial sweetener of your choice in the replace of refined white sugar (Refrain from Refined Sugar like you would a disease)

○ Try eating 5 to 6 smaller meals during the day

○ Balance your meals out during the day so in one day you have a mix of protein, carbohydrate and good fats

○ Drink lots of water during the day and before, during and after exercise

○ Simple Carb Examples: Grapefruit, Watermelon, Cantaloupe, Strawberries, Oranges, Apples, Pineapple, etc

○ Complex Carb Examples: Whole Wheat Pita Bread, Oatmeal, Long Grain Brown Rice, Brown Pasta, Malto-Meal (Plain, whole wheat),etc

○ Good Protein Examples: White or Dark Tuna, Chicken Breast, Lean Turkey, Lean Ham, Very lean Beef, Quality Whey Protein Powder,, etc

○ Good Fats Examples: Natural Peanut Butter, Various Nuts, Flax Seed, Fish Oils.

This is what you need to do:

This an approximation science, but you can narrow it down very close, if your meticulous in your vision when looking at the data.

Tweak your desire and passion by educating yourself on the basic requirements of losing fat tissue. With your age, sex, height, and weight, in mind, find your approximated base calorie needs (this is organ function, breathing, or bodily function needs). One can use the Benedict Formula.

Calculate your BMR:

The Harris Benedict equation determines calorie needs for men or woman as follows:

• It calculates your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) calorie requirements, based on your height, weight, age and gender.

• It increases your BMR calorie needs by taking into account the number of calories you burn through activities such as exercise.

This gives you your total calorie requirement or approximated Maintenance Line (I call it the MT Line).

Step One : Calculate your BMR with the following formula:

•Women: BMR = 655 + (4.35 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years)
•Men: BMR = 66 + (6.23 x weight in pounds) + (12.7 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)

Step Two : In order to incorporate activity into your daily caloric needs, do the following calculation:

•If you are sedentary : BMR x 1.2
•If you are lightly active: BMR x 1.375
•If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 1.55
•If you are very active (You exercise daily.): BMR x 1.725
•If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 1.9



The calorie surplus margin is just an example:

Apply this knowledge by going over the approximated MT Line (approximated Maintenance line), say for example, a +500c per day, for about 1 week.

Before the week begins, weigh yourself in the AM when you FIRST get up (do not eat yet) (remember your clothing, preferably with just underwear and t-shirt or like clothes).

Note the time, and the approximated wgt.

Each day spread your caloric content out throughout the day (keep the body fed, with calories in the 300 to 500c approximated calories each meal), or a like division which mirrors your end caloric deficit limit (meaning MT +500c).

This way you have your entire day and body encircled with nutrition (I assume you already know to eat clean), which if your eating right, will give an approximated good energy.

At the end of the week, on the same day, the same time, with the same like clothes, weigh yourself again. Note whether you lost or gained tissue (or weight I mean).


If this didn't happen, this means you need to make finer adjustments, and the MT line is not accurate, and you need to adjust this on your own.

Based upon the FEEDBACK your body is giving you, ask yourself how faithful you were on the diet, AND how faithful in training (whether you kept the training schedule (if you didn't, this would effect the caloric equation, no?!), AND how accurate you figured in your activities caloric wise.........but, you have the base information to begin making adjustments.
=========================================================

The Nutrients are an essential factor in the diet; however, the law of energy balance within the DIET, is the ultimate KING while the Nutrients can play in some decisions made within the body.

Do yourself a favor, figure out your MT line, adjust off of this, eat well balanced spaced out meals (DONT EVER starve YOURSELF), AND listen to your body for the results.

While you are trying to figure out your body, IT WILL PAY YOU BACK, I promise. You have to learn to MASTER yourself to become the master of weight loss for YOURSELF.
========================================================
"Let your inner vision cultivate your ultimate exterior expression" —Chillen

"The strongest inner feeling that prevails will result in the exterior expression" –Chillen

"Your cultivation and manifestation of thought accumulated within your reasoning will determine your outcome"----Chillen
==========================================================

The most effective beginning is to look at your diet, and make a diet journal in my opinion, THEN work in a training program around this diet.

==========================================================



Have controlled obsession (and obsession to a---Point, is necessary), but some lose this obsession once they learn the amount of work it requires. There eyes then widen and then the obsession then pops right out. Dont let this happen to you: Raise your Want-o-Meter to a new higher level.

Best Regards,


Chillen

 

[Chillen]

thxs for da great reply. im glad to see there are others that have been in same situation as me, ok then maybe i do an exercise 4 times a week, it will be an all round workout for my upper body each day, because i do plenty of football etc which helps my legs. doing the same muscles 4 times a week on a full upper body be ok or ? because u said do squats etc and giv at least 48 hours rest. problem is i have one of them multi gym things. so if i did only a certain muscle grp, the exercise would last for like 15 minutes etc lol. pls tell me wht u think and if im wrong tell me pls. And ive been reading other posts. You think i should bulk or ? and if so mostly carbs or proteins?

thxs for da help

To let you know, NROL is a good program to follow; however, dont be fooled. You can structure a program without it----AND HAVE potentially FANTASTIC PROGRESS or you can buy the book, read it, and carry the program out and get potentially fantastic progress. The choice is yours to make.

My statement on the lower body work in my previous posts still stands. If you want upper body mass to improve........INCLUDE Deadlifts and Squats.

What is your current body composition like? Your hgt, age, wgt, etc. My recomendation on whether to bulk, maintain, or cut, will be largely depend on this AND your desired goal (s).

When you say you workout your legs in football, how exactly are they getting worked out----besides running on the field and various drills? I would be interested in this.

 

[Legemi]

1st of all id just like to say a big thank you to you for putting such a big answer (i see it must have took quite a while, which i really apreciate) .

Welcome to the forum, Brotha! What kind of progress have you seen in two years? Honestly, this is enough time to see "substancial" progress. What was your goals during this 2 year period?

Why do you stop for 5 months? What prompted you to start again?

ty for da welcome and i have not seen any size difference in progress only slight tone and i guess strength. My goal, well was really just get bigger. And i guess i stopped for 5 months because i lost motovation (of lookin in mirror and never seeming to get bigger) and i started again because im thinking kinda in advance when im 18 when in clubs and stuff, would just like to look a bit bigger and stuff lol also i saw a m8 the other day and he has got inpressive results from his weightlifting (but his body type is different).

Why is your mentality and frame of mind like this? Why didnt or rather dont you expect dramatic results?

ive thought like this before and as the months go by (lookin in miror) kinda just makes iz feel a lil disapointed, therefore if i dont expect big results wont feel to disapointed i guess.


ive decided im going to put together a good diet and take your advise on legs aswell (squats and dead lifts).

And when u said about progression. i have read if you progress with to heavy weights, it would effect bone plates and bodys development or summit. is it true or ?

i have added up my calorie intake and it has came to 2801 which is quite abit ( i might up it to 3000, what do you think ?) but i already eat quite abit already so shouldnt be so hard.

What is your current body composition like? Your hgt, age, wgt, etc

my hight is 72 inches, im 17, weight around 130 pounds ( althought not very persice, i dont have scales and just going on my last weighing) and my body compisition? im skinny quite long arms + legs

thats why i think i should bulk lol

When you say you workout your legs in football, how exactly are they getting worked out----besides running on the field and various drills? I would be interested in this.

not much lol lol my legs r kinda skinny and i think i grew to just accept this because my parents are the same. But now i think ill giv them the shot they deserve, weather they see results or not.

best regards -.micahel.-

from tomorrow wont be on forum for few days i guess cos of kayaking going for a level 3 will be fun but maybe there is a p.c there i could check ya site on to see any more answers.

 

[Chillen]

Can you edit your post and put the correct syntax for quoting.......


It is very difficult to read..........HEY!


Many thanks!



Keep the chin up......or I go get a crane..bring it to your house.......attach it to your chin........and do it for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ROCK ON!



Best regards,



Chillen

 

[Legemi]

srry for that quote thing, it still hasnt worked roperly i don t think. thxs for ur words of wisdom hopefully i can keep my chin up and maybe do it 10 times a week with my pull up bar

 

[spicypumpkin]

Hey great post(s) chillen.

Listen to chillen, he knows his stuff. That's basically everything I wanted to say, but didn't know how or know enough to explain it the way chillen does.

So, now, why is it that your workout will only take 15 minutes if you split up upper and lower body? If you're including squats, deadlifts, lunges and one other lower body exercise, it should take you 30 to 45 minutes if you are resting between sets. My lower body workout right now has just four exercises. The squat, the deadlift, the Bulgarian split squat (similar to a lunge) and the step up. It takes me about 40 minutes to complete.

If you are going for muscle mass gain, I would highly recommend splitting up upper body and lower body. This way, you are ensuring that you get plenty of rest between workouts. The full body workout is best for fat loss from what I've read. It boosts your metabolism and you burn more calories. This makes weight gain difficult.

The fact that your current workout would only take 15 minutes if you split it up suggests that you are either not doing enough exercises, not doing enough reps, not using enough weight, or not resting for long enough between sets. It's probably a combination of all of these.

I only do 4 exercises, and I struggle to finish everything in 45 minutes. Don't ask me what I'm like on upper body days when I have six exercises to do. I have 3 different supersets to complete in 40 minutes. I'm walking back and forth through the gym at warp speed just to do all of my sets. (If you didn't know, a superset is two exercises where you alternate sets, it's good for muscle building. One of my supersets is pull ups and the incline chest press. Its good because I alternate between a pushing and a pulling motion with similar muscle groups).

Basically if you're doing your workout correctly, it should take you a long time.


You're off to a good start, just think about the structure of your workout. Also, try to progress with each workout. Don't stay at the same weight/reps two workouts in a row. Raise the weight or raise the reps each workout. Doing the same thing for weeks on end is more likely to break you muscles down than it is to build them up. Muscles grow because they need to adapt to new stress, if you aren't increasing the amount of stress in each workout, your muscle will have no reason to grow. If you do increase the amount of stress they are under, they will have to adapt. If you couple this with a good diet, you have a great formula for muscular weight gain.