Cardio or weights? Caloric surplus of deficit?

B

BStraz85

0
Hi all, I'm on here to help my girlfriend improve her workout. She goes to the gym semi-regularly right now, but from talking to her about how she spends her time and energy at the gym, she could use some advice.

She is by no means overweight, but like many girls, there's those trouble spots that she wants to lose a few pounds and tone. Now I'm quite aware that you don't lose weight where you want, your body decides where. So that leads me to my first question. Let's say she wants to lose 10 or 12 lbs, but tone as well. Losing weight requires caloric deficit but toning requires a surplus, makes it difficult to achieve both. You see where I'm going with this...what is the best way for her to get the best of both worlds? Should she begin by getting rid of as much fat as she wants then toning?

Obviously diet is a huge factor here, she just started the South Beach diet (for about the 17th time). I'm going to work with her on that. The one thing that makes it tough is me being on caloric surplus while she's not great about going to the gym and even when she does, her workout right now is pretty sub-par.

I've been reading a lot of articles on here and I've found great info so far...great site!

Thank you all in advance for your advice!
 
Cardio and weights.

Deficit dieting will remove fat from the body, revealing the muscles that are there giving a more "toned" look. I would probably do that first.

plus I am one of the wackos that believes you can gain a *small* amount of muscle while slowly cutting, because it has happened to me.
 
Toning doesn't usually require surplus, unless you have NO muscle base at all.

If you are a beginner with practially no muscle hiding behind the fat, then you are almost certainly someone who can lose fat and gain a little bit of muscle at the same time.

This is not wacko at all. The people who struggle to lose fat and build muscle at the same time are usually NOT beginners by any stretch of the imagination. Even experts can do both at the same time - the problem is that it is an inefficient way to lose fat and gain muscle compared with doing each separately.

There are people, women especially, who start working out and eating better, and the scale is STILL not moving, and they get frustrated when the truth is...they are losing fat, gaining muscle, and if they would give it a little more time, they'd SEE the difference in how they look, the clothes fit, etc.

Calorie deficiting (while eating GOOD foods) and resistance training would be her best starting place. Cardio comes a distant third to those.
 
sig said:
Toning doesn't usually require surplus, unless you have NO muscle base at all.

If you are a beginner with practially no muscle hiding behind the fat, then you are almost certainly someone who can lose fat and gain a little bit of muscle at the same time.

This is not wacko at all. The people who struggle to lose fat and build muscle at the same time are usually NOT beginners by any stretch of the imagination. Even experts can do both at the same time - the problem is that it is an inefficient way to lose fat and gain muscle compared with doing each separately.

There are people, women especially, who start working out and eating better, and the scale is STILL not moving, and they get frustrated when the truth is...they are losing fat, gaining muscle, and if they would give it a little more time, they'd SEE the difference in how they look, the clothes fit, etc.

Calorie deficiting (while eating GOOD foods) and resistance training would be her best starting place. Cardio comes a distant third to those.
Click to expand...

I've been lifting for years ang recently did it. Now I am pretty new to eating right so maybe that had something to do with it
 
Here is her new workout, please comment/criticize!

Day 1
-25 minutes of cardio
-Dumbbell press
-Dumbbell rows
-Lower back extensions
-10 minutes of cardio (cool down)


Day 2
-10 minutes of cardio (warm up)
-Squats
-Lunges
-Hamstring curls (machine)
-Calf raises (machine)
-Crunches
-Leg raises
-Twist crunches
-Planks
-10 minutes of cardio (cool down)


Day 3
-25 minutes of cardio
-Cable pull down
-Vertical dumbbell press
-Side crunches
-10 minutes of cardio (cool down)


Thanks again!
 
bipennate said:
Why not just make it a simpler full body workout? What are your sets/reps?
Click to expand...

Can you explain a little more? I basically took the workout from the Weight Training 101 thread and worked directly from that. Not sure how to make it much simpler. Suggestions are welcome though. I haven't worked out the sets/reps yet, but I'll most likely stick with that thread and go 3x10. In the future that might change, but for now, I'm keeping it simple for her. Thanks!
 
I don't get how this program is supposed to fit the goals you mentioned. It looks like the pullout exercise section of a women's magazine, to be honest.

Days 1 & 3 are really not enough of a total body workout. They look like cardio days, with a few weights thrown in for effect. If she's doing cardio, make it a real HIIT day. If she's doing resistance training (which she should be for the goals you mentioned), this is probably not enough.

Day 2 has some good aspects but you have half of it devoted to "targeted" ab work. I don't get that proportion. You'd get a better ab/core work out from doing a deadlift.
 
sig said:
I don't get how this program is supposed to fit the goals you mentioned. It looks like the pullout exercise section of a women's magazine, to be honest.

Days 1 & 3 are really not enough of a total body workout. They look like cardio days, with a few weights thrown in for effect. If she's doing cardio, make it a real HIIT day. If she's doing resistance training (which she should be for the goals you mentioned), this is probably not enough.

Day 2 has some good aspects but you have half of it devoted to "targeted" ab work. I don't get that proportion. You'd get a better ab/core work out from doing a deadlift.
Click to expand...

Okay I'll do some work on it. HIIT will be tough with her, she has asthma and I can't see her doing too well with that.


So maybe if I take all the weight training, put it in 2 days, take out the ab isolating exercises and add a little more core, then all the cardio in 1 day. I know I'm not good at this yet, I'm new to it. Thanks for bearing with me.

Day 1
-10 minutes of cardio (warm up)
-Dumbbell rows
-Lower back extensions
-Cable pull down
-Vertical dumbbell press
-Side crunches (obliques)
-Core exercise (suggestions?)
-10 minutes of cardio (cool down)


Day 2
-10 minutes of cardio (warm up)
-Dumbbell press
-Squats
-Lunges
-Hamstring curls (machine)
-Calf raises (machine)
-Core exercise (suggestions?)
-Plank
-10 minutes of cardio (cool down)


Day 3
-Cardio/HIIT
 
let's take a few steps backwards

I realize from your reply that indiscriminately switches from 3 days to 2 days that trying to comment or critique on the program right now is a few steps ahead of the game for your situation.

Let's get back to the basics. What is your gf's stats (weight, body fat %) and goals? What does she LIKE to do for activity? What limitations is she under (e.g., asthma?) Is she willing to make dietary changes to achieve this goal (because without deficiting, the fat loss will be a very slow go)?

More important, how much time is she willing to devote to her training? How many days per week? Will you (or someone who knows about the form of the exercises) be in the gym with her or will she be alone? Most people don't start out thinking "I love to go to the gym to lift heavy weights," and many women are afraid of how men at the gym view them doing various exercises. This doesn't mean she shouldn't - it just means that you have to take the psychology into account when you design the program, or we can come up with the perfect routine that your girlfriend will hate and refuse to do!

What is her current fitness level? Can she do 5 real (not knees) pushups on her own? 20 bodyweight walking lunges? run 1 mile without stopping (at any speed)?

Without this information, it's kind of pointless to sit around talking about deadlifts vs. targeted ab work or the role of HIIT.
 
sig said:
I realize from your reply that indiscriminately switches from 3 days to 2 days that trying to comment or critique on the program right now is a few steps ahead of the game for your situation.

Let's get back to the basics. What is your gf's stats (weight, body fat %) and goals? What does she LIKE to do for activity? What limitations is she under (e.g., asthma?) Is she willing to make dietary changes to achieve this goal (because without deficiting, the fat loss will be a very slow go)?

More important, how much time is she willing to devote to her training? How many days per week? Will you (or someone who knows about the form of the exercises) be in the gym with her or will she be alone? Most people don't start out thinking "I love to go to the gym to lift heavy weights," and many women are afraid of how men at the gym view them doing various exercises. This doesn't mean she shouldn't - it just means that you have to take the psychology into account when you design the program, or we can come up with the perfect routine that your girlfriend will hate and refuse to do!

What is her current fitness level? Can she do 5 real (not knees) pushups on her own? 20 bodyweight walking lunges? run 1 mile without stopping (at any speed)?

Without this information, it's kind of pointless to sit around talking about deadlifts vs. targeted ab work or the role of HIIT.
Click to expand...

It stayed a 3 day workout, the 3rd day is devoted to cardio now while the first two are aimed more slightly at a full body workout. I took out a couple ab-targeting exercises and I'm looking for some better core activities. I was going to put dead lifts in there for one of them. I think that would be very helpful for her, giving her core strength she needs to be lifting patients at work (nurse), doing the hiking/biking/swimming she enjoys, etc.


Some of this info I don't know right now, some I do. I'll give you what I know...

-Stats: 5'5" 135 lbs (I'll verify the weight tonight when I see her)
-Limitations: Asthma
-Dietary changes: Just started South Beach. She's great about it when she's on it, I blame myself a little for her not doing it consistently. This time around I'm going to make sure when I cook I follow her diet for her, and I have low card/SB friendly food in my apt whenever she's here.
-Time: Hard to say, she works three 12 hour shifts a week on a very busy ICU in a very busy hospital, so when she works, she wont be working out that day. There's no consistency to her schedule. I'm going to push for 3 days a week, I don't think I'll do better. She'll spend 1-1:15 there each day she goes
-I won't be there with her, unfortunately we live 60 miles from each other
-Fitness level: Not very high. She's not in horrible shape, she's able to stay on her feet for a 12 hour shift at work, or go hiking for 4 hours with me, but she's no athlete.
-Activities: She'd must prefer outdoor activities to the gym. I try to come up with active things for us to do when possible.
-Goals: Pretty general right now, lose 10-12 lbs of BF (I realize a % would be better, I don't think she knows her BF%, I'll see if she can find out). And to tone. The thing she mentions most is a flat stomach, like most girls, most of her weight goes in the middle.

Thank you again for the help!
 
In all honesty, why not just purchase The New Rules of Lifting (the "women's version" is out in 2 months, but it shouldn't make too much of a difference) and have her follow the workouts in that? It's an excellent, excellent book, and it will take the guesswork out for you. If you're not truly experienced in routine writing (and honestly, most people aren't, no matter what the tell you otherwise), why not go with a legitimate expert? Better results, safer and faster :)

You're doing a good thing for your girlfriend. Done properly, you will enable her to become stronger, more confident, and healthier. That's a wonderful gift to gove to anyone...Best of luck
 
The best suggestions here are based on getting the basic facts about your friend...Sig has it right...

About the only thing I can add, and can't stress enough, is that the nutrition side of things is, in my opinion, the most important part of the triangle (Nutrition+cardio+resistance).
She has to take this part of it very seriously or all the work in the world in the gym or on the track will not show very good results. Remember that going into a calorie deficit also does not always mean eating greatly reduced calories, but using more through activities targeted to do just this.

Make every calorie count. And count them. 250 calories from a chicken breast is a lot more useful than "sneaking" that fun size peanut butter cup from the kids halloween basket.
 
bipennate said:
In all honesty, why not just purchase The New Rules of Lifting (the "women's version" is out in 2 months, but it shouldn't make too much of a difference) and have her follow the workouts in that? It's an excellent, excellent book, and it will take the guesswork out for you. If you're not truly experienced in routine writing (and honestly, most people aren't, no matter what the tell you otherwise), why not go with a legitimate expert? Better results, safer and faster :)

You're doing a good thing for your girlfriend. Done properly, you will enable her to become stronger, more confident, and healthier. That's a wonderful gift to gove to anyone...Best of luck
Click to expand...

I'll look into that. It could come in handy for me too. Thanks for the tip.
 
Personally, I don't see enough cardio there to lose weight, but that's just my non-informed opinion.

Now, if she wants to bump up the cardio and she likes the great outdoors, why don't you two rent mountain bikes and go out? She'll probably be huffing, puffing and winded shortly, but non-diehards (i.e., everyone who is NOT on this forum) often don't see the fun in working out and you have to hide the working out with a fun activity.

By the way, Sig's first response was especially lucid. +1 rep for Sig.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top