A question about Judo n Aikido

B

Benny

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I was watching this martial art documentary on discovery,
In which i see this kid in judo lift a full grown adult judoka( almost twice the weight) n throw him off his back.
I( was kind off pised off watching that
Is that really possible in a real fight considering all circumstances are in favor of the judoka

Also you see aikido masters throw their opponents like they were tossing some weight around
If they are so effective why dont we see a lot of fighters use the techniques
of aikido

Lastly if i were to use aikido techniques against an opponent who is not trained in break fall
And what if he falls on his neck or head; id be more worried about his safety than my personal safety :rolleyes:
I know it sounds silly but it keeps running in my head
 
What do you mean you don't see fighters using Aikido? Like...UFC? If that's the case, then you don't see much because not many Aikido folks out there aren't cut out for the ring. But, I respect the art. It's good stuff, you should start doing some research on it.

As for judo, it's basically been a staple for most grapplers out there, and I would definately say that it has it's practical.
 
sorry

id have to put that on my ignorance and inexeperience
but when looking at it been performed it just seems as though the opponents were giving in to the throws.

as for judo, i always felt its sucess is relative to the weight of the opponent
may be i should look into the art
 
I was watching a judo match on youtube.com, and I have to say it was pretty unimpressive. They just held hands until one person threw the other one. Not saying it cant be effective, but you definitely need to combine it with another art.

I am looking into Aikido myself, as there is a school near me.
 
judo matches can be boring to watch at times
excepting some that are packed with some action

but isnt judo a strength based martial art

do post your experience on Aikido

i look forward to get feedback from a practioner himself :)
 
Benny said:
judo matches can be boring to watch at times
excepting some that are packed with some action

but isnt judo a strength based martial art

do post your experience on Aikido

i look forward to get feedback from a practioner himself :)
Click to expand...

Judo, like any other art, requires strength. However you don't need to bench 3x your weight or anything like that. The power comes from leverage.

Aikido is about the redirection of energy.

Look it up yo.
 
I agree with what Lei said. Strength can be helpful with Judo but most of Judo is about hip...hip...hip. Your better Judo player can use the strength of another opponent against them. Aikido's good but can take awhile before start seeing the benefit that you can use from it. I wish I could remember his name but we just had a Judo player that took it (championship) from a BJJ player in the UFC.
 
A judo 8th Dan from Japan came to our Dojo here, and dropped everyone last one of us on the Tatame (mat) noone believed hes own eyes, he even Knee Wheeled our trainer, he is about 5'6 old fella, always smiling, barely can see his eyes. He came here to prove one thing, and one thing only, that you do not need strength in Judo to drop your Uke, all u need is Technique and Balance. Oh yes he was weaker than us, and he was smaller in size, but he sure had the technique. That man inspired me, OSU !!
 
MichaelA said:
Maybe you don't see Aikido used in the ring because Aikido stresses the philosophy of a defensive martial art?
Click to expand...

Yea, I think I get what you're saying, but the philosophy is mostly about peace and harmony, so most skilled Aikido practicioners wouldn't choose the ring. The other thing is, Aikido wouldn't sell like a couple guys pound the crap out of each other in UFC.
 
While those are plausible, it still sounds like rationalization. I think that it adds a greater degree of legitimization when fighters from their respective styles represtent themselves in the ring.
 
Having Aikido in UFC would fundamentally defeat the teachings of Aikido in the first place.

While it has already been said here, that Aikido is for the most part a defensive art, there is an offshoot called Ki-Aikido, which lends itself more towards offensive strikes and maneuvers rather than relying solely on the redirection of the opponent. Research that a little bit if you feel the need to do so.

And while we're on the subject, I've had my tail handed to me multiple times by a 4'10, 70 year old Japanese man, many times over the years of studying.

It doesn't matter how strong you are in Aikido, it just matters how well you know the technique.


Benny, if you have any questions about Aikido feel free to shoot me a line. I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it.
 
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There are a few students in my aikido class who are very physically (muscularly) powerfull, and I'm gratefull for the opportunity to train with them, because the techniques must be performed correctly. A battle of force versus force always goes to the stronger force. (I'll note that very experienced aikidoka are very powerfull whatever their build is. In fact, a high level of strength can be a disadvantage to learning aikido for the first few years, because you think you're learning the techniques until you find out you can't throw the skinny old guy in the hakama.)

One of these students used to do judo, and he has noted that modern judo tends to be less sophistocated and more sporty than it used to be. Mostly a contest of strength and timing. However, the old masters of judo have extreemly good fundamentals, and can toss you around just by shuffling their feet and hooking your gi with two fingers. There used to be no weight classes in judo. It was a contest of skill.

Aikido, although philosophically peacefull, is only really that way because it can be. In truth, anyone who performs a successfull aikido technique on you and didn't injure you to some degree or another had both excellent control and compassion. My teachers often show how at any point in a technique, aikido can break down into an opportunity to injure your opponent.

Though JordanSC just referenced Ki-aikido as a style that lends itself to offensive strikes, I'm familiar with that style as being the most gentle and dance like, the style practiced by the Ki-Society branch of aikido. Perhaps he's refering to atemi - distracting blows to inflict pain or keep potentially dangerous free limbs occupied. My school is aikikai style, we practice the soft stuff and the hard stuff. Yoshinkan and Tomiki style aikido are the harder styles that I know of, and i think that Tomiki styles even engage in some sort of competition.

Anyway, Benny's origional question - my experience tells me that you could hip throw someone in an actual conflict. It's not really all that difficult to roll 300 pounds over your hips if you position yourself correctly. But, it would be more likely to work if your attacker were a good enough martial artist to avoid the elbow to the face that he could recieve for not cooperating with the throw, and it would be good for him if he could breakfall, otherwise he could get injured, like you said.
 
Sorry to not reply for so long and thanks everybody for the replies

I still have a few questions

Aikido can easily be combined with a few striking arts to make it effective and deadly too.
I dont know much about its effectiveness as a combat art but consider a defensive throw against a punch. The attacker throws his punch and stays in an exaggerated lunge position waiting for the master to apply his throw,
now is that practical.
also while the opponent is being maneuvered he willfully submits himself (or so it seems) to the master.

Why should a really aggressive opponent even give a chance to apply a hold. is it possible to apply such techniques when your opponent is busy testing his pugilistic skills on you.:confused:
 
Having done Judo as a sport and Aikido as I practice, I'd comment on the training methods: even in Judo, which is not hard to accept as effective in 'real' fights, when training with fellow members of your dojo it is inherent that they will try to offer as little resistance as possible until your technique is perfect for that level of resistance. If not, as mentioned in earlier posts, students will automatically resort to their strength when they encounter their training partner's resistance.

To offer an analogy: in weight training, if you can't have good form with 5lbs, can you have good form with 50? In order to learn the forms, you have to start with as little resistance as possible as the muscle memory is built.

So, how does this apply to a sensei who of course is well mastered in his/her technique? Why does it still look like the students offer no resistance?

First, I'd invite you to throw yourself at an Aikido sensei sometime :D

Second, the moment the Uke begins to resist, a student of Aikido changes to meet it. A good way to look at it is to first throw what you think the first law of motion means out the window. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" means I push you push right? Not in Aikido. You push, I pull and guide your energy. This is not a fierce yank or a sharp tug. It is a simple effortless guide.

But that only works if you keep your momentem towards me, right? Isn't any good martial artist going to react himself and pull back?

Of course. So you pull back. Fine, I won't bet sending you toward the horizon in a generally southern direction after all. No, instead, you just bought yourself a ticket on a northbound train :p

Even in a judo match, you'll see almost imperceptable twitches between the opponents as they dance around the circle, signaliing whose balance is in what direction as the forces work oppositely until BAM - somebody didn't react equally and the opportunity for a throw has presented itself. Viola', IPPON.

Anyway, thats a roundabout way of explaining why it seems students offer so little resistance. They could lock their ankles, lower their hips, throw their weight back to prevent the throw...but the sensie would just throw them in the opposite direction then. As far as an opponent who can use both fists at the same time, there are advanced Aikido techniques for just such the occassion.

And never forget that Aikido is more about neutralizing than winning in the traditional sense. The only victory for a student of Aikido is to have your opponent defeat himself. If you punch, I grab, you hussle back - okay, I just let go. Your attack has been neutralized, I need do nothing more. Until you try to strike again, and the pattern repeats.
 
an exellent post by gxinfinity

that explanation has cleared my head of all the questions and doubt i have ever had about judo and aikido

may be i've begun to appreciate and respect it as well
 
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Children can throw adults in Judo!!

It's mainly to do with technic not strength. Also it is easyer to throw heavier people becauce in Judo you use their weight against them.
 
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